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Israel/Palestine Confilct

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#31
Comrade

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Just give one side a copy of Pokemon Blue, the other Red, and give them a week to train up their perfect team and beat the game, then have them battle one another. The winner gets the united country under their own flag.

No Full-Revives though because that is basically cheating.
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#32
Céadóg

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Just give one side a copy of Pokemon Blue, the other Red, and give them a week to train up their perfect team and beat the game, then have them battle one another. The winner gets the united country under their own flag.

No Full-Revives though because that is basically cheating.


Now you're talkin'.
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#33
fukingcounterstrike

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Terrorism is what those without "legitimate" tactics available as an option will turn to.

Legitimate tactics, or legitimate reasons?

You push someone into a corner and they have nowhere to go, so the only option is to fight. Why doe that fight have to be referred to as terrorism? Rebellion, revolution, survival all classify in that description you had given, all capable of allotting varying scenarios with varying tactics. I just get frustrated with how much we throw that word around these days. It feels like propaganda to me and such an easy thing to eat up and spew back out. It's a general term that can be applied to everyday scenarios. If the case of being pushed into the corner until you lash out is terrorism, then isn't the case of pushing someone into the corner also terrorism?

#34
Occam's Chainsaw

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so terrorism is low budget warfare? Palestine can't have a proper army thanks to Israel.

#35
gloria123

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as a Jew, i'm in support of Israel. but i feel that it's a never ending situation because people have been fighting to get this land forever. so even if they do get rid of Hamas, there's still going to be another nation who starts it all up again. my school is constantly informing us of the situation there because a lot of the teachers and students have relatives or friends that live there or are in the IDF and we pray for the people living there everyday! i'm not saying it's an equal fight (as far as weapons) but i'm still siding with Israels and good luck you all of you living there, you're in my thoughts!
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#36
norcalgreendayfan

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It's the same god damn shit over and over again both sides hate each other and there will never be peace. It frustrates me to say this because my parents are Palestinian who were born in the West Bank town of Ramallah so it is very personal to us and of course there is animosity when one side feels their land was taken. There will never be a fair solution because both sides want the whole god damn thing and won't stop until they have it.
I for one am sick and damn tired of it all, I don't want to hate anyone but well knowing that you are part of one of the most disliked groups on the planet and knowing there will be Israelis and Israeli supporters who will hate me becuase of who I am and what my background is really is frustrating

#37
hamza_elyoubi

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Care to explain this position?


Lol are u kidding me

#38
Occam's Chainsaw

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Lol are u kidding me

Stop posting bullshit. This is a thread for debate, not mindless hate. Now gtfo or make an argument.
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#39
A song for the lovers

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Lol are u kidding me

I could have posted "Palestine suck", but I did not because I tell the difference between civilians who want peace and terrorist organizations. btw, how would you feel if would cursing your country you are living?

there was now a suicide attack in Tel Aviv, it is near where my sister lives, if anyone think we should live in fear, don't get on buses, do not eat in cafe stores, so he is completely not human ...

#40
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First of all, I want to say that my goal is not to offend anyone, and if I do, please tell me. As Navit said, I know the difference between people and State/organisations. Obviously both sides have people dying, and if I refer to a country in particular, I mean State.

I know that in war people support their own country/country where relatives live. I know that. To me though, the Palestinians have a very legitimate cause. A lot of people ignorantly say that Palestinians are crazy terrorists, and that they'll support Israel no matter what, but to Americans who say this I ask: How is this any different than the War of Independence? The difference is that Gaza is being oppressed much more, and that the 13 colonies did not have a calorie limit set on them. Still, the Americans fought to free themselves of the British. Nobody views this as terrorism. Nobody puts in question the legitimacy of the purpose of war.

The Hamas, although radical, were viewed as saviours when they were elected, and still are. To me, although bombing Israeli civilians isn't something I want, the Hamas are fighting the good fight by saying they can't take Israel's bullshit any longer. We in the Western world should understand that. We protest for freedom we already have, and we can't even recognise that the Palestinians are also fighting for the same thing?

The media almost always forgets to mention how the Palestinians are treated, and I think before saying anything that is one-sided, you should do your own research. The food that is promised to Gaza almost never arrives fully, the civilians are shot if they approach the food trucks to much, and the food is often bad. Civilians are shot for approaching the border, which is more like a prison than anything. Israel has a WAY more powerful army than the Palestinians, and yet they continue to shoot with unnecessary force on a tiny strip of land! The people of Gaza live exactly like the Jews were treated in Ghettos during the Holocaust, and I think Israel (the State), should not forget what they have lived before imposing it on other people.

Either way, I'll pray for everyone there, because nobody is safe on either side, and killing civilians on both sides will not solve anything.
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#41
A song for the lovers

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First of all, I want to say that my goal is not to offend anyone, and if I do, please tell me. As Navit said, I know the difference between people and State/organisations. Obviously both sides have people dying, and if I refer to a country in particular, I mean State.

I know that in war people support their own country/country where relatives live. I know that. To me though, the Palestinians have a very legitimate cause. A lot of people ignorantly say that Palestinians are crazy terrorists, and that they'll support Israel no matter what, but to Americans who say this I ask: How is this any different than the War of Independence? The difference is that Gaza is being oppressed much more, and that the 12 colonies did not have a calorie limit set on them. Still, the Americans fought to free themselves of the British. Nobody views this as terrorism. Nobody puts in question the legitimacy of the purpose of war.

The Hamas, although radical, were viewed as saviours when they were elected, and still are. To me, although bombing Israeli civilians isn't something I want, the Hamas are fighting the good fight by saying they can't take Israel's bullshit any longer. We in the Western world should understand that. We protest for freedom we already have, and we can't even recognise that the Palestinians are also fighting for the same thing?

The media almost always forgets to mention how the Palestinians are treated, and I think before saying anything that is one-sided, you should do your own research. The food that is promised to Gaza almost never arrives fully, the civilians are shot if they approach the food trucks to much, and the food is often bad. Civilians are shot for approaching the border, which is more like a prison than anything. Israel has a WAY more powerful army than the Palestinians, and yet they continue to shoot with unnecessary force on a tiny strip of land! The people of Gaza live exactly like the Jews were treated in Ghettos during the Holocaust, and I think Israel (the State), should not forget what they have lived before imposing it on other people.

Either way, I'll pray for everyone there, because nobody is safe on either side, and killing civilians on both sides will not solve anything.

This was one of the best post I read in this thread
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#42
hamza_elyoubi

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Stop posting bullshit. This is a thread for debate, not mindless hate. Now gtfo or make an argument.


lol *out*

#43
bat-chen

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Today at work we heard a sirens of like 5 or 6 police cars and ambulances. we were like 'what's happen know?' and a few second after we heard that there was a explosive device. Thankfully, it wasn't so big. The last time that there was a explosive device or suicide attack was about 9 years ago and people we really thought that the area of dangers in buses, restaurants, shopping centers... or any other places where they are many people, were gone. Now we back to the live when we have to look careful on everyone. When every person is suspicion and we have to thanks god that we still a live in the end of the day.

I know that not all the Palestine people are bad people and want to kill. I know that many of them want to live in peace but we are not dealing with them. We are dealing with the terrorists who only "solve problems" by violence but sadly those are the people who control Gaza and they convince more people to enjoy them.

And here's a pic to let you know what we are dealing with:
Posted Image
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#44
norcalgreendayfan

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And here's a pic to let you know what we are dealing with:
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak...

You know it's pictures like these that get posted on the Internet that really bother me.
I don't agree with what they did at all but it's the average person out there who knows very little about the people or what is going on over there. But when they see this they draw assumptions that all arab or Palestinians regardless of faith are savages. It's no wonder they are one of the most disliked groups of people out there and being part of that grouping irks me.

#45
Trotsky

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And here's a pic to let you know what we are dealing with:


Is that propaganda really so different from what they use in Gaza to teach hate for Israel to their kids?

Believe me, I sympathize with you, if I lived somewhere that was under attack all the time, where terrorism was always a threat, then I would probably have harsh feeling towards those on the other side. But the fact is that it's not just the fighting that has to end, Gaza cannot suffer under a blockade for the rest of eternity.

This is why the two-state solution has to happen, so hopefully a government less extreme than Hamas can administrate over Palestine and they will then have to be responsible for the actions of their people.
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#46
bat-chen

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Is that propaganda really so different from what they use in Gaza to teach hate for Israel to their kids?

Believe me, I sympathize with you, if I lived somewhere that was under attack all the time, where terrorism was always a threat, then I would probably have harsh feeling towards those on the other side. But the fact is that it's not just the fighting that has to end, Gaza cannot suffer under a blockade for the rest of eternity.

This is why the two-state solution has to happen, so hopefully a government less extreme than Hamas can administrate over Palestine and they will then have to be responsible for the actions of their people.

This pic was posted to see the rest of the world and especially to the people who are taking their side what we are dealing with. that we are dealing with horrible people and they not so innocent that they think they are.

It will be a dream if those nations can be live together with no war against each other but the problem that they don't want to live with us, they want to destroy us. they want all Israel land to themselves and change everything to their own. They don't want two states, they want one big state for them.
Also, they are more Muslims than Jews in the world so if they will take Israel on their hands, it will change it to a Muslim state and I really don't want this to happen, me and many other people.

BTW, I have someone in my work that from Columbia she's not a Jew but she marry to a Jew guy who also from Columbia and she said to me that she didn't know that we are in so much in danger until the last week. She told me that from the media there. it's looks that we are the bad people. That we have a big army and we are fighting against those poor people.

Do you know how many weapons were found (and they are much more out there hiding)?! A lot!! and this just in Gaza. Our army were shocked when they found out the amount of rockets they found and it's not stop! they throwing rockets to Israel like if they playing bowling. Why they are building so many weapons? because they need to defense themselves? No! it's because they want to attack. Why our army it's so big and have a lot of weapons? to defense ourselves from from other countries that want to attack us and from Terrorism.
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#47
Trotsky

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You are dealing with a horrible government, not a horrible people, and your own government are no angels themselves. I'm not praising Hamas, indeed they are dangerous, but there is a reason they are in power right now over there.

And yes, there are Muslims who refuse to recognize Israel, as well as there being Israelis and others who refuse to recognize Palestine. That is why both will have to compromise and why a two-state solution needs to happen even if it is opposed by extremists.

And again, if all those weapons are in Gaza despite Israel's years long siege of the land, doesn't that mean the occupation and blockade policies have failed?
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#48
norcalgreendayfan

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You are dealing with a horrible government, not a horrible people, and your own government are no angels themselves. I'm not praising Hamas, indeed they are dangerous, but there is a reason they are in power right now over there.

And yes, there are Muslims who refuse to recognize Israel, as well as there being Israelis and others who refuse to recognize Palestine. That is why both will have to compromise and why a two-state solution needs to happen even if it is opposed by extremists.

And again, if all those weapons are in Gaza despite Israel's years long siege of the land, doesn't that mean the occupation and blockade policies have failed?

That's the problem though moderates voices on both sides who call for a two state solution are being drowned out by extremists on both sides who claim the entire piece of land for their own.

Not to mention the Israeli governments continued building of settlements in disputed areas of the West Bank which keeps encroaching on Palestinian area thus leading to the Swiss cheese makeup of the West Bank if you will.

#49
musso_kn

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The first set of Jews who migrated to the area simply didn't want to share the land with Palestinians. That's where this conflict started. And it isn't fair. You can't force someone to leave a country which they've built their homes on for generations. That's just arrogant.

Anyway I can't see a two state development happening ever. Areas like Jerusalem and also the west bank too valuable and desirable to both sides. Is co existence such a naive concept? Could it even work in theory?

#50
A song for the lovers

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lol *out*

You act like 5 years old... Oh wait, you left...

I remember when I was at school, someone said "if not the two authorities, we would live in peace together"...

#51
Trotsky

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I remember when I was at school, someone said "if not the two authorities, we would live in peace together"...


But Palestinians are a much faster growing demographic than Israelis, so if there is only one state then eventually the Jewish State becomes undone by democracy or has to form an undemocratic regime for the sake of self-preservation.

There has to a two-state solution in order for Israel to remain as a Jewish state and for Palestinians to have their own right to self-determination.

#52
norcalgreendayfan

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But Palestinians are a much faster growing demographic than Israelis, so if there is only one state then eventually the Jewish State becomes undone by democracy or has to form an undemocratic regime for the sake of self-preservation.

There has to a two-state solution in order for Israel to remain as a Jewish state and for Palestinians to have their own right to self-determination.

That's why a one state solution where everyone has equal rights and an equal say in things is not a desirable idea at least for the Israelis because they know they will be out numbered and could turn against them.
Any two state solution has to be done fairly with a continuous border not just pockets of land here and there with areas reserved for Israelis cutting in between that land. The Palestinians also must have full control of their borders, resouces and airspace as well has have the opportunity to have a self defence force.

#53
Giov

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Today the UN has recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, as far as I know it will have access to many treaties which so far were not accessible and even denounce the issue of the occupied territories to the International Criminal Court.
Some states voted against the resolution or abstain - is there even a difference? - proving to be irresponsible (I'm referring to western countries, some European ones in particular).
What do you think?

#54
Trotsky

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As far as I see it, Israel is going to oppose the two-state solution for all eternity, and full recognition of Palestinian statehood is going to come as soon as the United States stops helping Israel obstruct the inevitable.

There is going to come a day where Israel's refusal to even feign cooperation will no longer matter.

#55
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As an Israeli resident I'm with my nation's side. Hamas is throwing rockets on us for 12 years! Think about it! It's impossible that people go to sleep and think for themselves "a rocket is going to fell on me\my house tomorrow?". Children was born to this kind of life. We really don't want to get into a war because the loss of soldiers and humans is so sad and I guess most of you don't know how it feels that your brother\father\uncle is going out there and maybe not coming back. As a sister to a soldier I admit that I scared because I know maybe he will be in one of those wars, and maybe in four years I will be? I can't know.

You can say that we hit innocent children and women too, but it's wrong. And if we do it counts as a failure to us, but if Hamas hits Israelies they count it as a victory. You can decide for yourself who's the "bad side" now.
We are not a terrorism organization, we are a nation. and let's say that we want peace much more than the other side.
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#56
musso_kn

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As an Israeli resident I'm with my nation's side. Hamas is throwing rockets on us for 12 years! Think about it! It's impossible that people go to sleep and think for themselves "a rocket is going to fell on me\my house tomorrow?". Children was born to this kind of life.


Palestinians and Palestinian children are pretty much experiencing exactly the same thing. Except it is worse, because they really don't have the security of being a recognised nation with a police force or an army or any kind of solid infrastructure.

#57
Trotsky

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Palestinians and Palestinian children are pretty much experiencing exactly the same thing. Except it is worse, because they really don't have the security of being a recognised nation with a police force or an army or any kind of solid infrastructure.


Or food for that matter, because any sort of ship trying to send aid is intercepted and seized.

Also, Israel saying they are going to expand into occupied territory in the West Bank even further just days after this conflict ends, all I can say is "wow."
I have never seen a government so fucking dense.
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#58
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they're not a nation is Gaza, they're controlled by a terrorism organization. I don't say they don't feel the fear of being bombed, but if they live in a place where the Hamas hide weapon to use it agaisnt Israel, it's their problem. We didn't tell them to live with terrorist, it also tells about that we want peace more than they do. And I really don't care if they're scared that their family member who's a terrorist get killed.
My nation attacks as defense to protect our residents, they attack to kill\hit our residents and we attack back the ones who attacked us. It's a simple way of defense.
and our army is called "Israel Defense Force", not "Israel Attack Force". We don't attack, we defense.
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#59
Trotsky

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they're not a nation is Gaza, they're controlled by a terrorism organization. I don't say they don't feel the fear of being bombed, but if they live in a place where the Hamas hide weapon to use it agaisnt Israel, it's their problem. We didn't tell them to live with terrorist, it also tells about that we want peace more than they do. And I really don't care if they're scared that their family member who's a terrorist get killed.
My nation attacks as defense to protect our residents, they attack to kill\hit our residents and we attack back the ones who attacked us. It's a simple way of defense.
and our army is called "Israel Defense Force", not "Israel Attack Force". We don't attack, we defense.


Well your country only had 40 years of chances to recognize Palestinian statehood and make co-existence work BEFORE Hamas took over Gaza.

And the West Bank, which is not controlled by Gaza, proves that even when a Palestinian territory is controlled by a moderate authority, they still get nothing in return from Israel. Why does your government continue to build deeper and deeper into land that was never theirs?
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#60
pedro_s00

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As an Israeli resident I'm with my nation's side. Hamas is throwing rockets on us for 12 years! Think about it! It's impossible that people go to sleep and think for themselves "a rocket is going to fell on me\my house tomorrow?". Children was born to this kind of life. We really don't want to get into a war because the loss of soldiers and humans is so sad and I guess most of you don't know how it feels that your brother\father\uncle is going out there and maybe not coming back. As a sister to a soldier I admit that I scared because I know maybe he will be in one of those wars, and maybe in four years I will be? I can't know.

You can say that we hit innocent children and women too, but it's wrong. And if we do it counts as a failure to us, but if Hamas hits Israelies they count it as a victory. You can decide for yourself who's the "bad side" now.
We are not a terrorism organization, we are a nation. and let's say that we want peace much more than the other side.


Whether you like it or not, Israel army and governments have committed several acts of state terrorism along the years.



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