Green Day as musicians.

[Cori]

I think that Billie is one of the most underrated guitar players out there. The guy can play some of the most amazing live solos, but I guess the average person wouldn't know that. Even his solos from 39/Smooth to Uno and Dos are of a really high level. Billie is just a talented artist, as a vocalist, lyricist, and musician. His vocals have really improved over time, and the point where his vocals are today make him my favorite vocalist. His lyrics can be very meaningful or somewhat silly, but they're almost always easy to relate to. This is the man who wrote Jesus of Suburbia, after all. Oh, and he can play just about every instrument he's given, whether it's guitar, bass, drums, piano, mandolin, harmonica, etc.

Mike has some of the best bass playing I've heard. Probably because he is one of the few bass players whose band actually shows off their bassist to where I can notice them. I mean, the bass lines on Longview, She, JAR, and Stray Heart, just to name a few, are amazing.

Tre is easily one of the best, if not the best, rock and roll drummers out there. He can really play. Different songs in the trilogy have really been reminding me of that fact.

[JaHawk2009]

The thing that gets me, as a wannabe bassist, is how under-appreciated Mike Dirnt is. S much so that people know BJ, as he's frontman and they know Tré, cos he's got a cool name (Badum-Tsh), but Mike seems to just be the bassist to many casual fans.

[Trina]

I think they're all underrated. Just because they often choose to play simpler music doesn't mean that's all they can do. We know they can do much, much more. I find simple music to be the most powerful, the most effective. I've never been one for technical, complicated guitar riffs and such. I find it alienating, head-wrecking. There's something too calculated and mathematical about it. The sheer emotion conveyed in Green Days' music is incredible. I've never heard it with anything else. I think they're brilliant musicians.

[gerardsangel4977]

Green Day's rythm section is waaaay underrated. At least the one from the 90s. I play bass myself and playing Mike's bass lines on American Idiot, 21st Century Breakdown and most of the trilogy is pretty easy, but the stuff he plays on Kerplunk, Dookie and Insomniac is very difficult to play. Especially Insomniac is pretty crazy. I think it's kinda sad that Mike's bass lines got so simple since AI, I mean what happened? You can't lose a talent just like that. But his bass lines got better with Uno and Dos, the bass breakdown in Makeout Party is delicious. But still, back then Mike's bass harmonied so perfectly with what Billie played on his guitar, it was a such special sound. Mike is such a talent bassist, he should really show it more. After all, with Longview he wrote one of the most memorable (and difficult to play) bass lines in rock. He even used to slap, like in 16 and Who Wrote Holden Caulfield... Tré is also a very underrated drummer - I think he actually kinda stands in the shadow of Travis Barker who is of course one of the most talented drummers ever, so people often compare Tré and Travis because Green Day and Blink are like... band cousins or something. :lol:/> But Tré is a great drummer in another way. In a more rock'n'roll way. People love Travis because he's fast as hell, experimental and looks badass while playing, but Tré ROCKS and some of his stuff is complicated as hell. The drum breakdown in Burnout blows my mind every time, especially when they play it live - Tré nails it every time. Billie is one of the best live singers in rock right now, no doubt about that. Listen to the "no one really seems to caaaare" part in Jesus of Suburbia on the Awesome As Fuck DVD. Amazing! :D/> His guitar solos sound badass, but they are very similar if you listen closely, especially the improvised ones like when they play American Idiot live. But he isn't the greatest guitarist ever, it's mostly three chord punk rock after all. Oh yeah, last thing: Mike's harmony vocals! The On the Radio version of Words I Might Have Ate gives me goose-bumps every time. Other beautiful examples are Boulevard of Broken Dreams, Having a Blast, Stay the Night, She, 21st Century Breakdown, Holiday, See You Tonight and many more... I actually can't think of any other punk rock band that has such great harmony back vocals. After all these years he managed to sound very similar to Billie. When I listened to the 21stCB album I was actually afraid that Billie did his own backing vocals throughout the album, but after listening to the instrumental versions you can tell it's Mike. :)/>

Well, Billie does do*some* of the backing vocals, particularly in cases where there are multiple harmony parts (The most immediate example I can think of is the chorus in Holiday. Mike sings the lyrical harmony part, while Billie does the "whoa oh ohs" underneath). But, overall, I agree those two harmonize with each other like nobody's business

nooo way what!?! yeah, i lot of the old videos are too crappy for my viewing pleasure. Except for that footage form their high school, that stuff is sick. i think i did a crappy job of explaining what i am trying to say over this conversation. In short i think is solos during AI and 21CB tours were kinda bad, but i'm excited to see the new solos live

I wasn't talking about the old videos, necessarily, so much as the shiny new ones where you can see him playing "Oh Love", "Stray Heart", "Wild One", "Makeout Party", etc.

As for the extended solos he plays live, I admit I don't have much taste for some of the more sloppy, improvised ones (though they still excite me to see). But the more deliberately-constructed solos he adds to "Minority" and "Good Riddance" during live shows are among my favorites

Up to and including! "Count up to ten" means up to and including ten! Yes, American Idiot is his lyrical masterpiece. It still astonishes me that they pulled off an album with a story, with such a vivid atmosphere. It's hugely underrated by a lot of critics who only see the "political" side which is at most two songs. Just the last two albums have been more about the overall feel of the song than particularly sharp lines and 21st Century Breakdown was a horrible mess of muddled similes that even he couldn't tell you what he was aiming for. Em.... :mellow:/>

Yes, but "up until" (which is what you actually said) means "everything prior to".

I haven't been as impressed with some of the trilogy lyrics (though I think Dos shows improvement over Uno), but I thought 21st Century Breakdown still had incredibly strong material that was both relatable and made a strong statement. Lyrics don't have to be straightforward to be impactful

[Guest]

I'm gonna tell you what happened, as Rob and Mike said in an interview that it was part of the sound, it wasn't supposed to be any stunning basslines in American Idiot or 21st Century Breakdown, they were heading for a deeper bass sound in those albums. It's not like he couldn't make basslines anymore, trust me, he can do that.

Bullshit. I hate how Mike was sidelined in American Idiot. Anytime Billie's guitar came in, it was so layered it covered everything. Don't get me wrong, I fucking love that album to bits. But Mike really drew the short straw.

i don't think green day are superb musicians. they do have some talent and they play really tight live, but i don't think their music is too hard to play. i know loads of bands who

a) have better guitarists who pull off badass riffs and amazingly fast solos (makeout party isn't really that mindblowing)

b) have bass players that play tighter and faster than mike and also compose actual riffs instead of just doing fills and

c) have drummers that have faster hands, do more creative beats and better fills.

hell, even in punk rock their musicianship is average at best.

a) There's more to playing guitar than playing fast and technical. Look at Dragonforce. They're a bunch of fucking twats who play music by numbers, like it's a video game. Green Day are twice the musicians those guys are, because they play raw music. It comes from the heart.

b) You're right. Mike doesn't write bass riffs at all. (No One Knows, JAR, 16, Nightlife)

c) Tré is consistently viewed as one of the best drummers in the world. Sure, Travis Barker gets most of the limelight when it comes to pop-punk, and very deservedly so, the guy is a genius. But would anyone know about Travis Barker if Dookie hadn't come out? Would the pop punk explosion have happened? I doubt it. And as for fast hands, find a drummer that can listen to Platypus and play it straight off. You won't find one.

For those of you saying that Tré is not playing 100% of his capacity in the last records...I think he is not holding back, maybe you have to consider that he is 39 now. I would say that it's natural that he can't be such a beast at the drums at the current age. He is not 20 anymore.

Dude, 2 words for you. Mike Portnoy. He's 45. Your argument is invalid.

[WhiteTim]

b) You're right. Mike doesn't write bass riffs at all. (No One Knows, JAR, 16, Nightlife) :dry:/>

Strike nightlife nethier tre nor mike are credited to nightlife just Billie and Lady Cobra

But Mike is an excellent player same with Billie and Tre

[Guest]

Strike nightlife nethier tre nor mike are credited to nightlife just Billie and Lady Cobra

But Mike is an excellent player same with Billie and Tre

Huh. So who wrote the bassline? Curious.

[Dalya]

It's hard to do such a good covers of other bands, even better than the originals, so I think it proves that they have a really good musical skills. All of them!

[Mr. Shluffy]

writing a bassline doesn't usually get you songwriting credit. Basically lyrics and melody are what get copyrighted, which is why there are so many stock basslines that get used over and over

[Malleus]

I feel like they're a bit underrated as musicians. They are definitely not average musicians, they're extremely good musicians. That's pretty subjective though. If you think talent is just solos upon solos upon solos, then you probably won't think they're very talented. A lot of people have talked about musicianship and I agree - I think that's why Green Day work so well. High levels of talent + an understanding of music/their abilities = great, quality songs.

For the record, I feel like the most underrated part of Green Day is Billie's vocals.

[WhiteTim]

writing a bassline doesn't usually get you songwriting credit. Basically lyrics and melody are what get copyrighted, which is why there are so many stock basslines that get used over and over

If tre or mike wrote the music they'd be credited as such...

[joeysturkeyhead]

Bullshit. I hate how Mike was sidelined in American Idiot. Anytime Billie's guitar came in, it was so layered it covered everything. Don't get me wrong, I fucking love that album to bits. But Mike really drew the short straw.

Your argument is bullshit. Do you play bass? I do and by that you can hear that it wouldn't have fit with a bunch of fills, plus, Holiday has a bassline which is great. Don't say bullshit about real fact that comes from Rob Cavallo and Mike, I think they know more about Green Day's music than you do.

Do not insult or underrate Mike's bass playing, you know nothing.

Huh. So who wrote the bassline? Curious.

Mike did. *sigh*

Strike nightlife nethier tre nor mike are credited to nightlife just Billie and Lady Cobra

But Mike is an excellent player same with Billie and Tre

Of course he wrote that.

[WhiteTim]

Your argument is bullshit. Do you play bass? I do and by that you can hear that it wouldn't have fit with a bunch of fills, plus, Holiday has a bassline which is great. Don't say bullshit about real fact that comes from Rob Cavallo and Mike, I think they know more about Green Day's music than you do.

Do not insult or underrate Mike's bass playing, you know nothing.

Mike did. *sigh*

So Mike wrote the bassline but what refused to get credited and NOT get paid?

Tell me why would Mike and Tre take credit for all the songs EXCEPT for one song?

[joeysturkeyhead]

So Mike wrote the bassline but what refused to get credited and NOT get paid?

Tell me why would Mike and Tre take credit for all the songs EXCEPT for one song?

I don't know, maybe they forgot to write it on the record (that's where it's not written, right?). After all, they have forgot to write some things on the album (atleast taking away Drama Queen from the cover of the LP). Seriously, why wouldn't Mike and Tre have done the work on this song, what's the point with that.

[WhiteTim]

I don't know, maybe they forgot to write it on the record (that's where it's not written, right?). After all, they have forgot to write some things on the album (atleast taking away Drama Queen from the cover of the LP). Seriously, why wouldn't Mike and Tre have done the work on this song, what's the point with that.

When you check the ASCAP site it doesn't have Mike nor Tre's name ethier and that site doesnt leave out names

It's not a big deal it doesn't take away that Billie Mike and Tre are talented musicians

[gerardsangel4977]

Interesting about the Nightlife credits. Pretty sure that Mike is the one playing it on the recording, but if he didn't write it, and the only two people credited are Billie Joe and Lady Cobra, then I'm going to say that Billie must've been the one who wrote it.

[frunsi]

a) There's more to playing guitar than playing fast and technical. Look at Dragonforce. They're a bunch of fucking twats who play music by numbers, like it's a video game. Green Day are twice the musicians those guys are, because they play raw music. It comes from the heart.

b) You're right. Mike doesn't write bass riffs at all. (No One Knows, JAR, 16, Nightlife)

c) Tré is consistently viewed as one of the best drummers in the world. Sure, Travis Barker gets most of the limelight when it comes to pop-punk, and very deservedly so, the guy is a genius. But would anyone know about Travis Barker if Dookie hadn't come out? Would the pop punk explosion have happened? I doubt it. And as for fast hands, find a drummer that can listen to Platypus and play it straight off. You won't find one.

a) sure, they play raw music. but did you know that there are also guitarists who play raw AND fast/difficult stuff? see Showerdays by NOFX for example. the main riff is lightning fast and hard as fuck, but also very raw and not too well executed.

b) ok, i agree with no one knows and 16. but other than that, mike doesn't have many remarkable basslines. if you want excellent bass playing in punk rock, see Minutemen, Rancid, Lagwagon, NOFX, The Clash etc.

c) platypus is easy. you don't even need fast hands for it. compare it to Back To The Suburbs by Frenzal Rhomb. and travis barker is not that great either. anything derrick plourde from Lagwagon played on Hoss puts barker to shame.

[WhiteTim]

a) sure, they play raw music. but did you know that there are also guitarists who play raw AND fast/difficult stuff? see Showerdays by NOFX for example. the main riff is lightning fast and hard as fuck, but also very raw and not too well executed.

b) ok, i agree with no one knows and 16. but other than that, mike doesn't have many remarkable basslines. if you want excellent bass playing in punk rock, see Minutemen, Rancid, Lagwagon, NOFX, The Clash etc.

c) platypus is easy. you don't even need fast hands for it. compare it to Back To The Suburbs by Frenzal Rhomb. and travis barker is not that great either. anything derrick plourde from Lagwagon played on Hoss puts barker to shame.

Ahh you're the "i think these underground/less popular bands are better musicians than bands who are signed to a major label" snob....

[Guest]

Your argument is bullshit. Do you play bass? I do and by that you can hear that it wouldn't have fit with a bunch of fills, plus, Holiday has a bassline which is great. Don't say bullshit about real fact that comes from Rob Cavallo and Mike, I think they know more about Green Day's music than you do.

Do not insult or underrate Mike's bass playing, you know nothing.

Oh for gods sake. Go back and read my post again. Now read it again. Now please tell me where I insulted Mike's bass playing. Excuse me for fucking having an opinion. Yes there's a bassline on Holiday. Is it pretty much the only time the bass get's noticed on the entire album? Yes. Apart from maybe Dearly Beloved but that's hardly worth giving credit for.

Go back and listen to AI. How much bass can you really hear? Nearly all of it is layered guitar tracks which push the bass out of songs.

And yes, while it isn't my main instrument by a long shot I can play bass.

a) sure, they play raw music. but did you know that there are also guitarists who play raw AND fast/difficult stuff? see Showerdays by NOFX for example. the main riff is lightning fast and hard as fuck, but also very raw and not too well executed.

b) ok, i agree with no one knows and 16. but other than that, mike doesn't have many remarkable basslines. if you want excellent bass playing in punk rock, see Minutemen, Rancid, Lagwagon, NOFX, The Clash etc.

c) platypus is easy. you don't even need fast hands for it. compare it to Back To The Suburbs by Frenzal Rhomb. and travis barker is not that great either. anything derrick plourde from Lagwagon played on Hoss puts barker to shame.

a) I'll make my point again, fast isn't always good. When was the last time NOFX troubled the Billboard 200? Nothing against them, they're a fine band, but not really comparable to Green Day.

b) Longview. Stuck With Me. 86. As the guy who's ranting at me said, Holiday.

c) My brother has played drums for 6 years. He's a damn fine drummer. Still couldn't do half the shit Travis Barker can do with his eyes closed. Saying Travis Barker isn't that good is like saying Eddie Murphy isn't that funny. You're just wrong. And if Platypus is so easy, go ahead and show us. Youtube. Play us a cover.

[SedatedTabloidReader]

Ahh you're the "i think these underground/less popular bands are better musicians than bands who are signed to a major label" snob....

Except of course that Minutemen were definitely more technically proficient than Green Day and the rest of those bands are also excellent.

[WhiteTim]

Except of course that Minutemen were definitely more technically proficient than Green Day and the rest of those bands are also excellent.

I wasnt implying they werent excellent or not but what I said is the attitude i got from his post...

[SedatedTabloidReader]

Given that Nightlife is pretty much enitrely bass, it makes sense that Billie-Joe wrote it and seeing as the drums seem to have been electronically programmed, it makes sense that Tre isn't credited either.

[frunsi]

a) I'll make my point again, fast isn't always good. When was the last time NOFX troubled the Billboard 200? Nothing against them, they're a fine band, but not really comparable to Green Day.

b) Longview. Stuck With Me. 86. As the guy who's ranting at me said, Holiday.

c) My brother has played drums for 6 years. He's a damn fine drummer. Still couldn't do half the shit Travis Barker can do with his eyes closed. Saying Travis Barker isn't that good is like saying Eddie Murphy isn't that funny. You're just wrong. And if Platypus is so easy, go ahead and show us. Youtube. Play us a cover.

a) commercial success doesn't equal awesomeness. oh, and nofx ranked #36 on the billboard 200 with their 2009 album coaster. and you must admit that El Hefe is a way better guitarist than BJA in terms of technique.

b) dude. listen to The Decline or Maxwell Murder. even though the Stuck With Me solo is pretty cool, you can't compare it to the songs mentioned.

c) of course travis barker is a very good drummer, but he's also very overrated. derrick plourde, dave raun, jordan burns, kye smith, gordy forman... there are countless punk drummers who beat him by miles.

fine, i'm going to record a platypus drum cover just when i get home.

[TheJedi]

a) commercial success doesn't equal awesomeness. oh, and nofx ranked #36 on the billboard 200 with their 2009 album coaster. and you must admit that El Hefe is a way better guitarist than BJA in terms of technique.

b) dude. listen to The Decline or Maxwell Murder. even though the Stuck With Me solo is pretty cool, you can't compare it to the songs mentioned.

c) of course travis barker is a very good drummer, but he's also very overrated. derrick plourde, dave raun, jordan burns, kye smith, gordy forman... there are countless punk drummers who beat him by miles.

fine, i'm going to record a platypus drum cover just when i get home.

why do you want to prove that Green Day are bad musicians? is that all you have to care about in your life?

dont be so fucking negative. they are good musicians. no one said that they are the best ever, but they are great& they are my favorites

and btw, i think No One Knows has the best bass line ever. and yes, I listen to the Clash..

[frunsi]

i don't want to prove that they are bad musicians. i just don't think that they're "great" or "underrated" because they really aren't. they're good, the musicianship is solid, but it's not outstanding.