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Where is the line on humour? --Daniel Tosh controversy --

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#1
Kayfabe

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So I'm here tumblin' and apparently Daniel Tosh has made a joke about rape. I don't know what he said or when/why/whatever but it got me thinking about what is never not okay to joke about. I also feel like this has been done before but whatever.

South Park are well known for taking things that you just do not joke about, and joking about them. And doing it successfully, IMO.

Anyway, a quick google search gets me this link

This week, while performing at Los Angeles comedy club The Laugh Factory (home of
Michael Richards' notorious, career-killing racist tirade), Tosh's routine apparently struck an uncomfortable nerve with a female audience member, as well as her friend, who documented the account that has since gone viral. According to the blogger, who wrote on behalf of her friend who was the butt of Tosh's jokes, Tosh was "making some very generalizing, declarative statements about rape jokes always being funny, how can a rape joke not be funny, rape is hilarious, etc." during his routine.


After feeling compelled to break the golden comedy club rule, the female audience shouted to Tosh, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny!” Like most comedians in this kind of situation, Tosh fired back at the heckler. Only this time, what he responded with has now caught the attention of those well outside of the comedy club. According to the post, Tosh joked, "Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like, right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her?" Get it? Because she would be raped.


Fucking disgusting that you would say that to someone tbh.
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#2
Artificial Idiot

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What the hell is wrong with people these days?

#3
captain peroxide

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I have no problem with his original joke, but his comeback was too far.
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#4
xJackx

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^Agreed. It's black humor, if you don't like it don't see Daniel Fucking Tosh. The comeback is ridiculous, though. I understand that it's only offensive if you let it be, but some shit just ain't right.

#5
Marius Pontmercy

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The fact that people actually laughed at his comeback is what gets to me.

#6
Kayfabe

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I have no problem with his original joke, but his comeback was too far.

What exactly was the original joke? And why was the comeback too far?

The fact that people actually laughed at his comeback is what gets to me.

Laughing is also a nervous reaction.

#7
WhatserKinx

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I know there are always people who say "If you don't like them, don't watch them" but a line has to be drawn somewhere I mean I don't see how anyone can find rape jokes funny. Just like there was controversy over comedian Frankie Boyle's jokes as he was joking about cancer patients and people with various disabilities (I'm told he also mocked many paralimpic competitors) These people have no reason to be made fun of nobody choooses to be wheelchair-bond/raped/be a cancer victim. I think some people have lost their sense of what is moral.
I think Daniel Tosh went too far- even if you don't think his generalisation of rape jokes weren't overstepping the line you must admit that singling out an audience member saying if she were to be raped it would be funny is too far.
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#8
Marius Pontmercy

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Laughing is also a nervous reaction.

But laughing because a comedian tells someone they hope they'll get raped by 5 men? It's too far because he wishes ill to someone.

#9
BringMoreKnives

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I don't want to live on this planet anymore. That is so messed up.
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#10
Kayfabe

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But laughing because a comedian tells someone they hope they'll get raped by 5 men? It's too far because he wishes ill to someone.

Like I said, nervous reaction. Laughter is used when one is shocked and unsure what their immediate reaction should be, and as a social 'everything is okay really' soother-over. I doubt anyone would find genuine humour in a remark like that.

And yes that's what I found so sickening about this. Heckling is a part of any stand up com's life. Especially in a touchy situation like this where he should expect (and deserve) some heckling, he should have really come better prepared. Make a joke about her having no right to say anything because of her ugly blouse, or something. Like the tumblr post linked to in the OP said, it was designed to put her in her place, and to say something like that to do it really is beyond anything.

Interesting thing the person who it happened to pointed out: Tosh seemed out of his element onstage. Must be why he came out with something as badly thought out and unfunny as that.

#11
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I know there are always people who say "If you don't like them, don't watch them" but a line has to be drawn somewhere I mean I don't see how anyone can find rape jokes funny. Just like there was controversy over comedian Frankie Boyle's jokes as he was joking about cancer patients and people with various disabilities (I'm told he also mocked many paralimpic competitors) These people have no reason to be made fun of nobody choooses to be wheelchair-bond/raped/be a cancer victim. I think some people have lost their sense of what is moral.
I think Daniel Tosh went too far- even if you don't think his generalisation of rape jokes weren't overstepping the line you must admit that singling out an audience member saying if she were to be raped it would be funny is too far.


I think everyone here agrees that his response to the heckler crossed the line, hell, left the line a mile back. I know that it's extremely offensive to make a rape joke, I understand that nobody tries to and that it's not inherently funny by any means. But it's the same logic that cops use when they joke about the grisly scenes they have to deal with [that making light of it makes it a little easier to cope with] and if not then he's simply crossing the line for comedic value, which (when not taken too far) does indeed have comedic value.

#12
captain peroxide

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What exactly was the original joke? And why was the comeback too far?


Whatever his original joke about rape was. I'm a very firm believer in there being nothing off-limits in comedy, as long as it's done well. The comeback was too far because a) it wasn't funny and b) it was gratuitous, like Michael Richards' rant a few years ago.

#13
StrayHeart93

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I have seen worse comebacks than this ...... Just saying

I am not defending him but I have heard worse.

#14
CristhyneS

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I think jokes about rape can be alright, in a proper context. For instance, my friends and I often make jokes about this, like if one of us has a very hard exam coming and feel they'll do badly, we say something like "I'm gonna get so raped in this exam", or "X proffesor will rape me so bad on saturday", and sometimes add more graphic details to make it funnier but we know there are no rape victims in our group, and I think this is a very important point, because I guess many rape victims might find this kind of comments very upsetting, at least st some point of their lives.

What I think was wrong in his act was his comeback, because it referred to an actual situation of rape, not getting raped by an exam or the professor applying the exam, or a situation, it wasn't figuratively, or at least it didn't come off that way, it was something that sounded very literal, "wouldn't it be fun if 5 guys just came in a raped her?", and what makes it even more upsetting is that he directed this to a girl who had expressed to be unconfortable about rape jokes. If you know it's a touchy subject, don't push it. Take the high road, come back with a joke about agreeing to disagree or whatever. But don't just point your finger at her and say it'd be fun in 5 guys raped her.

#15
Archer In a Cape

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Most jokes about controversial subjects are usually acepted as long as its presented well. And his original joke may have been ok but turning round and making a joke like that isnt funny because its much more personal and focused at one person in particular and in the end is a really nasty, cheep and childish way to get a laugh.

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#16
StrayHeart93

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Example

Female Student: [after spraying Brian in the face with mace] I'm sorry, I just came from that orientation seminar about college dating.

Kelly McGillis: [Scene cuts to an auditorium of students watching a video] Hi, I'm Kelly McGillis and I'm here to talk to you about rape. Ladies, look to your left. Now look to your right. Statistics indicate that both of those men will rape you.

Male Student #1: [Female student is seen sitting between two male students. She looks nervously at them] I'm not gonna rape you.

Male Student #2: I might.



( from family guy )


You see there is worse rape jokes about
But tosh kinda crossed the line :(

#17
Kayfabe

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Example

Female Student: [after spraying Brian in the face with mace] I'm sorry, I just came from that orientation seminar about college dating.

Kelly McGillis: [Scene cuts to an auditorium of students watching a video] Hi, I'm Kelly McGillis and I'm here to talk to you about rape. Ladies, look to your left. Now look to your right. Statistics indicate that both of those men will rape you.

Male Student #1: [Female student is seen sitting between two male students. She looks nervously at them] I'm not gonna rape you.

Male Student #2: I might.



( from family guy )


You see there is worse rape jokes about
But tosh kinda crossed the line http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

I wouldn't say it's worse, but it is actually funny, unlike this.

#18
Penguin Puffball

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That's fucking disgusting. Wait until one day he's assaulted. See how fucking funny it is then.

#19
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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I've never been much of a fan of Tosh. His comedy relies almost entirely on shock, obscenity, and the "did he really just go there?" aspects of what he says and does. There's nothing wrong with those elements by themselves, as this strong proponent of dead baby jokes can attest to. Thing is, that's all Tosh does, and he goes so far over the line so much of the time that his comedy is lost behind stupidity and insensitivity towards the targets of his humor. I think it's pretty clear that he did that again here by just going way too far in his reply.

#20
Malleus

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Didn't Daniel just make a comment and not actually a joke? When he was being heckled? I don't think his comment was a joke in the sense that he thought it up beforehand and planned to say it, but he was just making light of something, which is totally acceptable IMO. Condoning bad things is not the same as making fun of them.

Okay, okay, so no, heckling does not give you the right to make fun of rape - but being a comedian does. I'm not trying to sound edgy or off colour or anything but I seriously believe that either everything is okay or nothing is. Comedians have been doing offensive shit for years and years now, and it's pathetic that I've seen this whole incident being likened to what Michael Richards did back in 2007. The only thing similar betwen those two situations is that they were comedians being caught off gaurd, except one is just that - a comedian - and the other is a blantant racist.

If you were personally affected by something so awful such as rape and you are at a comedy club and you shout out something like "OH NO DON'T TALK ABOUT RAPE THAT'S SCARY NO NONO!!" you are in no position to be surprised or offended when the comedian (who isn't known for his G-rated humor, btw) brings up, of all things, rape! Whether you find his comedy funny or not is pretty irrelevant because that's subjective. I don't really find what he said funny, but not because of what he's talking about. Again, I'm not saying that anybody ever has the right to legitimately make fun of rape or abuse or anything terrible like that, but you should not take comedy seriously to the point where it offends you.

Was he being a jerk? In my opinion, yeah, that's kind of a dicky thing to say, but he's a comedian and everybody is well aware of his style so I'm not shocked. Should we be concerned or super angry at him? No, not all. This whole thing ties in with the trans shit that's been going on about Laci Green (but that's another story) and I feel like we put way too much faith in words and their ability to hurt us.

#21
captain peroxide

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The only thing similar betwen those two situations is that they were comedians being caught off gaurd, except one is just that - a comedian - and the other is a blantant racist.


I don't see how Michael Richards is a blatant racist, and Daniel Tosh isn't a blatant misogynist with your logic.
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#22
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I don't see how Michael Richards is a blatant racist, and Daniel Tosh isn't a blatant misogynist with your logic.

Well, it's not like Michael Richards was making racial jokes before his outburst. It just came out of nowhere because of something unrelated - the heckler's skin colour. I don't know about anybody else, but to me, that tells me that those thoughts were not random and were always there. Daniel was just making jokes, however unfunny people may find them, he didn't just go off on a tangent about how he wants to rape girls.

#23
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now he's gonna be known as "that rape joke guy"...

#24
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Never cared for his show because I really just don't think he is funny. I don't think crude humor is amusing at all.. so I avoid it all together.

#25
captain peroxide

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Well, it's not like Michael Richards was making racial jokes before his outburst. It just came out of nowhere because of something unrelated - the heckler's skin colour. I don't know about anybody else, but to me, that tells me that those thoughts were not random and were always there. Daniel was just making jokes, however unfunny people may find them, he didn't just go off on a tangent about how he wants to rape girls.


I don't know how you get "those thoughts have always been there" from "it just suddenly happened one time." And has Tosh ever made a rape joke before?

Being funny by being outrageous is extremely difficult. Richards definitely failed at it, and in my opinion, Tosh did too.
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#26
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I don't know how you get "those thoughts have always been there" from "it just suddenly happened one time." And has Tosh ever made a rape joke before?

Being funny by being outrageous is extremely difficult. Richards definitely failed at it, and in my opinion, Tosh did too.

I mean that his outburst suddenly happened one time but those thoughts have always been there. Also I'm not sure, maybe? I mean that what happened with Richards was out of the blue and Tosh is known for being in bad taste, so it's silly to compare them in my opinion.

Richards telling jokes > gets heckled > goes on a racist rampage
Tosh telling jokes > gets heckled > ends up saying some dicky things about rape

I agree with you though, it is pretty difficult, but I don't think Richards was trying to do that and Tosh just came across as a dick. I don't think he's a horrible monster or anything though, but I think this is getting a bit too much attention for what it really is.

#27
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I think this is getting a bit too much attention for what it really is.


Now that, we can agree on.
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#28
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So I'm here tumblin' and apparently Daniel Tosh has made a joke about rape. I don't know what he said or when/why/whatever but it got me thinking about what is never not okay to joke about. I also feel like this has been done before but whatever.

South Park are well known for taking things that you just do not joke about, and joking about them. And doing it successfully, IMO.

Anyway, a quick google search gets me this link



Fucking disgusting that you would say that to someone tbh.

What the fuck? I never found the guy funny, and now I sure as hell don't. I fucking hate the guy now. RAPE IS NOT FUNNY AND A SERIOUS ISSUE.

I don't think his comment was a joke in the sense that he thought it up beforehand and planned to say it, but he was just making light of something, which is totally acceptable IMO. Condoning bad things is not the same as making fun of them.

If you were personally affected by something so awful such as rape and you are at a comedy club and you shout out something like "OH NO DON'T TALK ABOUT RAPE THAT'S SCARY NO NONO!!" you are in no position to be surprised or offended when the comedian (who isn't known for his G-rated humor, btw) brings up, of all things, rape! Whether you find his comedy funny or not is pretty irrelevant because that's subjective. I don't really find what he said funny, but not because of what he's talking about. Again, I'm not saying that anybody ever has the right to legitimately make fun of rape or abuse or anything terrible like that, but you should not take comedy seriously to the point where it offends you.

Was he being a jerk? In my opinion, yeah, that's kind of a dicky thing to say, but he's a comedian and everybody is well aware of his style so I'm not shocked. Should we be concerned or super angry at him? No, not all. This whole thing ties in with the trans shit that's been going on about Laci Green (but that's another story) and I feel like we put way too much faith in words and their ability to hurt us.

First things first, I don't care if he was trying to be funny or not, there is NO making "light" of rape. It is a serious issue that is devastating to the victim and the victim's family. It destroys people lives, and thus is an issue that one takes care to not make fun of or "make light of" and should be handled SERIOUSLY.

Second, way to victim blame.

Third, yes, this is something people should be pissed about because by making the general comment he did and THEN the seriously DISGUSTING comments he made to the audience member were WRONG and probably triggering to that audience member and probably triggering to other members of the audience.

Taking rape "lightly" is the reason WHY there's a widespread problem of rape within society. A significant portion of rapes go unreported because rape is very rarely taken seriously by the general population and often times are not taken seriously by law enforcement. Victims are often blamed for their rapes even though it is NEVER the victim's fault.

This is an issue I, and hopefully others will take seriously.
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#29
Eva

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I've never liked Tosh. I admit to making a lot of offensive jokes, it's just how I am sometimes, but I can't remember ever making a joke about rape like that. It's just not funny. And the fact that he thought it'd be funny for five guys to rape the woman, right then and there, is just disgusting.

Even if he was doing that thing comedians sometimes do when they find an offensive joke and just run with even though they know it's wrong, he went a little too far this time, I think.

#30
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What the fuck? I never found the guy funny, and now I sure as hell don't. I fucking hate the guy now. RAPE IS NOT FUNNY AND A SERIOUS ISSUE.


First things first, I don't care if he was trying to be funny or not, there is NO making "light" of rape. It is a serious issue that is devastating to the victim and the victim's family. It destroys people lives, and thus is an issue that one takes care to not make fun of or "make light of" and should be handled SERIOUSLY.

Second, way to victim blame.

Third, yes, this is something people should be pissed about because by making the general comment he did and THEN the seriously DISGUSTING comments he made to the audience member were WRONG and probably triggering to that audience member and probably triggering to other members of the audience.

Taking rape "lightly" is the reason WHY there's a widespread problem of rape within society. A significant portion of rapes go unreported because rape is very rarely taken seriously by the general population and often times are not taken seriously by law enforcement. Victims are often blamed for their rapes even though it is NEVER the victim's fault.

This is an issue I, and hopefully others will take seriously.

Please don't use "victim blame" while making it seem like I somehow blamed victims for their rape, because that is what you are doing and that is not what I think and it is ridiculous. I'm not going to type up a big post, I'm just gonna say this: You think it's not okay to make fun of everything. I think it is okay to make fun of everything. I've already posted my thoughts on this situation in further detail so that is all I've got to say.



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