Jump to content

Welcome to Green Day Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Posted Image  New "F**K Cancer" shirt. 100% of profits are going to breast cancer charity. Check them out.

Photo

BOOBS

GDC News

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
121 replies to this topic

#61
CaesarSalad

CaesarSalad
  • Best Thing In Town

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,498 posts
  • Joined Oct 01, 2005
  • 924 rep
  • Gender:Female

That is no different than most others who go through their own struggles, emotional or otherwise. I don't understand how asking a question is harmful or offensive. Privacy is up to the individual, they choose their privacy by deciding what they will or won't share. No one can force them to share more than they want. If someone asks a question, again out of sincere curiosity, then what's the problem? If you don't' want to answer it, that's perfectly fair and I think anyone here would accept that.

Example: I remember someone asking a while back when you were going have gender-reassignment surgery or whatever. Then you explained that not every person going through this decides to have that surgery. I'd rather have someone ask a question and be corrected about the premise of their question, than tell them "you're safer just not asking anything. stay ignorant, just in case you unknowingly say something upsetting." I just don't think that's a good attitude to have.

andres, you and i are not in a position to tell a trans* person what they should and shouldn't find offensive, so it's better for us to sit down, shut up, and listen.

trans* people can go through some pretty serious internal and external struggles that cisgendered folk don't have to deal with. dysphoria is recognized as a medical condition. you wouldn't tell a person who's suffering from depression to stop being so debbie-downer and you wouldn't tell a person with an anxiety disorder to just calm down. dysphoria should be treated with the same sensitivity. just like depression and anxiety disorders, dysphoria has triggers and while the triggers are not the exact same for every person, there are more common ones like asking about birth names or addressing the trans* person's body and/or body image.

curiousity isn't a bad thing, but some questions can be extremely triggering to a trans* person and there's just no telling who will be okay with it and who won't be. so, rule of thumb: before asking a trans* person a personal question consider whether or not the information will better your relationship with that person. knowing their birth name will not, because that's not who they are. knowing what kind of junk they have or want will not, unless you plan on sleeping with them in the near future (in which case, the two of you are probably comfortable enough with each other to share that kind of info). these questions might come across as harmless curiousity to you, but just thinking about the answers can trigger dysphoria for a trans* person.
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#62
CristhyneS

CristhyneS
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Joined Sep 07, 2005
  • 1,007 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela

Isn't Idiot a old greek term for "not interested in politics"?


Oh my god, yes! I feel I love you! :lol:


Example: I remember someone asking a while back when you were going have gender-reassignment surgery or whatever. Then you explained that not every person going through this decides to have that surgery. I'd rather have someone ask a question and be corrected about the premise of their question, than tell them "you're safer just not asking anything. stay ignorant, just in case you unknowingly say something upsetting." I just don't think that's a good attitude to have.


While I agree with you on the fact that is better to ask these questions inspired by curiousity rather than to stay ignorant, I think some questions might be inspired by curiousity about someone's personal life, rather than general knowledge. And this question is an example of that. I was lurking through the sex thread when that question came up, and while I never thought it was made with bad intent, but simply out of pure and innocent curiousity, and since it was on a thread where usually a lot of personal information is disclosed, maybe the person who asked it didn't stop to give it a second thought to the fact that s/he was about to ask a very specific question about an especific person's genitalia on a public forum. It wasn't throwing a general question out there, like "has anyone here gotten or is planing to get gender-reassigment surgery?", which I think would be a very suitable question in a forum with a considerable amount of transsexual members.

Now, a completelly acceptable question, in my opinion at least, would be "Frank, do all trans people choose to get sex-reassigment surgery? And if they do choose to get it, at what point of their transition do they usually get it?" or whatever. Very general question, and it even opens the subject, so if Frank felt comfortable enough to discuss this on a public forum he could add a little "in my experience I don't want it, or yes I want it and it's scheduled for next month, whatever" foot note at the end of his post replying to that very general question.
  • CaesarSalad, Frank's Penis, Yussef and 1 other like this

#63
Fuzz

Fuzz
  • Professional Cocksmith

  • 38,288 posts
  • Joined May 28, 2004
  • 15,413 rep
  • Age:28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Mexico, USA

andres, you and i are not in a position to tell a trans* person what they should and shouldn't find offensive, so it's better for us to sit down, shut up, and listen.

trans* people can go through some pretty serious internal and external struggles that cisgendered folk don't have to deal with. dysphoria is recognized as a medical condition. you wouldn't tell a person who's suffering from depression to stop being so debbie-downer and you wouldn't tell a person with an anxiety disorder to just calm down. dysphoria should be treated with the same sensitivity. just like depression and anxiety disorders, dysphoria has triggers and while the triggers are not the exact same for every person, there are more common ones like asking about birth names or addressing the trans* person's body and/or body image.

curiousity isn't a bad thing, but some questions can be extremely triggering to a trans* person and there's just no telling who will be okay with it and who won't be. so, rule of thumb: before asking a trans* person a personal question consider whether or not the information will better your relationship with that person. knowing their birth name will not, because that's not who they are. knowing what kind of junk they have or want will not, unless you plan on sleeping with them in the near future (in which case, the two of you are probably comfortable enough with each other to share that kind of info). these questions might come across as harmless curiousity to you, but just thinking about the answers can trigger dysphoria for a trans* person.


the same can be said for every emotional condition in existence. You're basically saying what I suggested in the last sentence, "stay ignorant, it's safer." I understand the concern of triggers and how certain things can possibly lead people down a really rough path, i understand that more than any of you are aware. But I still maintain that it's just a terrible attitude, an unhelpful one even, to say "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together." it seems so hypocritical to go from making threads and bringing up the issue constantly to others around you only to say "i'm glad all of you are aware of how i feel. now people don't ask me any questions because that could possibly be rude." Why not look at those questions as an opportunity to inform and educate people and help people understand the situation better. And if you don't want to play that role, if that's not something you think you can handle, then just avoid that conversation all together.

Oh my god, yes! I feel I love you! http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...




While I agree with you on the fact that is better to ask these questions inspired by curiousity rather than to stay ignorant, I think some questions might be inspired by curiousity about someone's personal life, rather than general knowledge. And this question is an example of that. I was lurking through the sex thread when that question came up, and while I never thought it was made with bad intent, but simply out of pure and innocent curiousity, and since it was on a thread where usually a lot of personal information is disclosed, maybe the person who asked it didn't stop to give it a second thought to the fact that s/he was about to ask a very specific question about an especific person's genitalia on a public forum. It wasn't throwing a general question out there, like "has anyone here gotten or is planing to get gender-reassigment surgery?", which I think would be a very suitable question in a forum with a considerable amount of transsexual members.

Now, a completelly acceptable question, in my opinion at least, would be "Frank, do all trans people choose to get sex-reassigment surgery? And if they do choose to get it, at what point of their transition do they usually get it?" or whatever. Very general question, and it even opens the subject, so if Frank felt comfortable enough to discuss this on a public forum he could add a little "in my experience I don't want it, or yes I want it and it's scheduled for next month, whatever" foot note at the end of his post replying to that very general question.


My argument is only that questions are not bad. Even poorly worded questions can have good intent, and like I said, it's ultimately up to the individual how they want to answer. I just don't think saying "no question about this" is the right approach to education and understanding. It immediately builds up a wall that most people are too afraid to cross, so they'd rather stay ignorant than offend.

My co-worker has known one gay person in his entire life. When he found out about me, he asked questions. He was curious about how things were different for me, how I met people, how my family was about it, all these very personal things. I understood his intent. It wasn't simply to be nosey for gossips sake, it was his way of trying to understand something he had very little experiance with. I answered the questions I felt comfortable answering and we moved on. I felt like I helped an otherwise clueless dude understand gay people from my point of view, even if just a tiny bit. Had he asked me questions that I didn't want to answer, then I wouldn't answer. If thinking about those questions and answers bothered me, then I'd tell him that, and tell him why, then he'd never ask that question again. But at least I didn't start by building up a wall and saying "here's what you need to know, here's the stuff you avoid because someone maybe just might get offended."
  • chewychorizo likes this

#64
CaesarSalad

CaesarSalad
  • Best Thing In Town

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,498 posts
  • Joined Oct 01, 2005
  • 924 rep
  • Gender:Female

the same can be said for every emotional condition in existence. You're basically saying what I suggested in the last sentence, "stay ignorant, it's safer." I understand the concern of triggers and how certain things can possibly lead people down a really rough path, i understand that more than any of you are aware. But I still maintain that it's just a terrible attitude, an unhelpful one even, to say "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together." it seems so hypocritical to go from making threads and bringing up the issue constantly to others around you only to say "i'm glad all of you are aware of how i feel. now people don't ask me any questions because that could possibly be rude." Why not look at those questions as an opportunity to inform and educate people and help people understand the situation better. And if you don't want to play that role, if that's not something you think you can handle, then just avoid that conversation all together.

hence the bolded "ask permission to ask questions" in the OP. if you've got a burning question about trans* people in general then ask if it's okay to ask. they're people, not textbooks, so not every trans* person will feel like answering questions about being trans*. like christhyne said, frank has kindly opened himself up to those kinds of general questions about being trans* (the issue of what kinds of questions are okay being one of them, go figure) but there are still some personal questions that you just should side-step to avoid possibly bringing up any negative feelings that person may or may not have about their body and identity. it's not a matter of staying safety in ignorance; it's a matter of safety in respect for the person whose personal struggles you're probing.

also, (i hate pulling this card) google is a good resource if you have other general trans* questions and no trans* person to ask.
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#65
CristhyneS

CristhyneS
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Joined Sep 07, 2005
  • 1,007 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela

My argument is only that questions are not bad. Even poorly worded questions can have good intent, and like I said, it's ultimately up to the individual how they want to answer. I just don't think saying "no question about this" is the right approach to education and understanding. It immediately builds up a wall that most people are too afraid to cross, so they'd rather stay ignorant than offend.

My co-worker has known one gay person in his entire life. When he found out about me, he asked questions. He was curious about how things were different for me, how I met people, how my family was about it, all these very personal things. I understood his intent. It wasn't simply to be nosey for gossips sake, it was his way of trying to understand something he had very little experiance with. I answered the questions I felt comfortable answering and we moved on. I felt like I helped an otherwise clueless dude understand gay people from my point of view, even if just a tiny bit. Had he asked me questions that I didn't want to answer, then I wouldn't answer. If thinking about those questions and answers bothered me, then I'd tell him that, and tell him why, then he'd never ask that question again. But at least I didn't start by building up a wall and saying "here's what you need to know, here's the stuff you avoid because someone maybe just might get offended."


Yes, but I don't think Frank was closing up to personal questions. First, he finished his post with a general invite to ask questions, and second, that part of his post you quoted in your first post in the thread said to ask for extra permission if you wanted to ask about genitalia, it didn't say "no questions about genetilia will be allowed, ever".

And hey, I think it's very nice and admirable that you were that open to your co-worker about your sexuality, even if you're still in a place where you're not entirely confortable with some things just yet (or so I've been given to understand from your posts in this thread).

But not all people are like that and not all people are in the same stage at the same time, in the sense that maybe at some point you'll be really closed about it and won't even want to think about somethings yourself, and a year after that you'll be running a blog where you encourage people to ask all the questions they've ever had about people with a sexual identity similar to yours for you to answer.


the same can be said for every emotional condition in existence. You're basically saying what I suggested in the last sentence, "stay ignorant, it's safer." I understand the concern of triggers and how certain things can possibly lead people down a really rough path, i understand that more than any of you are aware. But I still maintain that it's just a terrible attitude, an unhelpful one even, to say "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together." it seems so hypocritical to go from making threads and bringing up the issue constantly to others around you only to say "i'm glad all of you are aware of how i feel. now people don't ask me any questions because that could possibly be rude." Why not look at those questions as an opportunity to inform and educate people and help people understand the situation better. And if you don't want to play that role, if that's not something you think you can handle, then just avoid that conversation all together.


I think now you're suggesting the same thing that you are critizicing.

I think saying (and I quote this from your post) "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together.", is just as bad as saying "I'm not sure if I can deal with having people asking me a lot of personal questions, so I'll just avoid it all together".

If you're not ready to answer general questions then yes, you should avoid it all together. But if you are ready to answer to those general answers, then it's better that you bring up the subject and answer those questions, and start informing people on a subject that is, to this date and in most societies, a very strong taboo, even if you're not ready or confortable with getting personal questions.
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#66
captain peroxide

captain peroxide
  • Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,770 posts
  • Joined Feb 20, 2007
  • 6,397 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunspear

I think now you're suggesting the same thing that you are critizicing.


He wasn't suggesting that was a good idea.

I still maintain that it's just a terrible attitude, an unhelpful one even, to say "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together."



#67
CristhyneS

CristhyneS
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Joined Sep 07, 2005
  • 1,007 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela
I was refering to the fact that he said this:

But I still maintain that it's just a terrible attitude, an unhelpful one even, to say "i'm not sure what i can and can't deal with. so please just avoid it all together."


And then closed his post with this other statement:


Why not look at those questions as an opportunity to inform and educate people and help people understand the situation better. And if you don't want to play that role, if that's not something you think you can handle, then just avoid that conversation all together.


  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#68
captain peroxide

captain peroxide
  • Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,770 posts
  • Joined Feb 20, 2007
  • 6,397 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunspear


I think he means there's no point saying you're open to talking about something and then setting limits on what you can talk about. Either talk about it, and be open to all manner of questions, or don't talk about it at all.

#69
dumb shiny bitch

dumb shiny bitch
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,248 posts
  • Joined Jul 26, 2010
  • 1,383 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland
I think it's more than okay for people to limit how much and what information they give out.
  • Frank's Penis, Yussef and ChuckTaylors like this

#70
captain peroxide

captain peroxide
  • Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,770 posts
  • Joined Feb 20, 2007
  • 6,397 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunspear

I think it's more than okay for people to limit how much and what information they give out.


No one's saying it isn't. Andres's point was it's lame to limit how much and what questions can be asked. If someone asks an offensive question, no one's obliged to answer it, but that's entirely different than saying the question can't be asked at all.
  • Batgirl likes this

#71
CaesarSalad

CaesarSalad
  • Best Thing In Town

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,498 posts
  • Joined Oct 01, 2005
  • 924 rep
  • Gender:Female
can you please read my post about being sensitive to the other person about what questions you ask?
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#72
captain peroxide

captain peroxide
  • Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,770 posts
  • Joined Feb 20, 2007
  • 6,397 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunspear
I'm not getting involved in this argument, I was just explaining Fuzz's point.

#73
CaesarSalad

CaesarSalad
  • Best Thing In Town

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,498 posts
  • Joined Oct 01, 2005
  • 924 rep
  • Gender:Female
this isn't an argument. we're trying to explain why some questions are off-limits and you two aren't catching on. i'm a bit worried that you think it merits an argument.
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#74
dumb shiny bitch

dumb shiny bitch
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,248 posts
  • Joined Jul 26, 2010
  • 1,383 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland
Frank gave us 4 simple rules. I would never want to be responsible for triggering someones dysphoria so I respect them. End of story.
  • Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#75
Jaymee!!

Jaymee!!
  • LL Cool Tré

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,995 posts
  • Joined Feb 19, 2007
  • 3,597 rep
  • Age:25
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Ottawa, soul in Newquay
I think it's all up to the individual as to what questions are off-limits, instead of just grouping everyone together and saying that all trans people find them offensive, or may find them offensive. You do not speak for every trans individual in the world, you speak for yourself and those who share your point of view. What may seem as an offensive question to you may not be to another. Trans-gendered people are not the only ones who can suffer from dysphoria, but I can't help but feel that that's the only point that you're trying to get across to Alex and Andres. If that's the case, why ask questions to anyone at all about anything that may be different to our own lives? People should not have to worry that their curiosity is always going to trigger a mental and emotional condition. It's human nature to be curious, you can't put a limitation or a rule on that.
  • Fuzz, Boston and chewychorizo like this

Advertising

#76
Boston

Boston
  • Resident Coochie Lover

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,356 posts
  • Joined Jun 26, 2006
  • 962 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA
I honestly think that refusing to answer questions ("ask before asking questions") is just as ignorant as a cis-gendered person being totally ignorant. Most people don't understand what being trans is all about.

I always do my best to answer any and all questions about my gender identity/expression.

#77
dumb shiny bitch

dumb shiny bitch
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,248 posts
  • Joined Jul 26, 2010
  • 1,383 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland
We were advised to ask permission to ask personal questions and to not undermine someone's identity. What's unreasonable about that?
  • Frank's Penis, Yussef and chatnoir like this

#78
CaesarSalad

CaesarSalad
  • Best Thing In Town

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,498 posts
  • Joined Oct 01, 2005
  • 924 rep
  • Gender:Female

I think it's all up to the individual as to what questions are off-limits, instead of just grouping everyone together and saying that all trans people find them offensive, or may find them offensive. You do not speak for every trans individual in the world, you speak for yourself and those who share your point of view. What may seem as an offensive question to you may not be to another. Trans-gendered people are not the only ones who can suffer from dysphoria, but I can't help but feel that that's the only point that you're trying to get across to Alex and Andres. If that's the case, why ask questions to anyone at all about anything that may be different to our own lives? People should not have to worry that their curiosity is always going to trigger a mental and emotional condition. It's human nature to be curious, you can't put a limitation or a rule on that.


okay, fair enough about the dysphoria thing. but the two questions that were off-limits were birth name and questions that challenge their gender identity and expression which are directly related to being trans*. not everyone might be triggered by these questions but you need to consider, essentially, what it is your asking and why you're asking. i already said this but i'll break it down some more, the way i see it as a cis-gendered person not speaking for the trans* community and just for herself:
  • to the first one, who even cares? why do you need to know that? that is not who they are so what the hell does it matter what their birth name is anyway. it will have no effect on any interaction you have with this person because it is something they no longer identify with.
  • to the second one, why would you even? that's, if we want to keep comparing sexuality and sexual identity like a bunch of dolts, like asking a gay person "well have you just tried being straight?" or "when did you decide you were gay?" it's plain wrong and offensive. i know you guys well enough that you wouldn't even dare ask those kinds of questions of a homosexual person, so i don't see why it's so difficult to expect the same care for trans* people.

I honestly think that refusing to answer questions ("ask before asking questions") is just as ignorant as a cis-gendered person being totally ignorant. Most people don't understand what being trans is all about.

I always do my best to answer any and all questions about my gender identity/expression.

again: trans* people are not encyclopedias. not every trans* person you meet is going to want to play q&a with you. so asking in advance is just common courtesy.

and i'm done with this because i can't fathom how i could express myself any simpler. it was only a matter of time before you all finally came out of the woodwork.
  • CristhyneS, Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#79
Trotsky

Trotsky
  • I sought my image in the scorching glass

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 29,209 posts
  • Joined Sep 23, 2006
  • 7,244 rep
  • Age:22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Drifting through the multiverse

*
POPULAR

I think there can be a healthy middle ground between walking on glass and just thinking you can go right in and ask anything in any way. My dad for example has no feeling in the last 2 fingers on his right hand and it's outwardly visible, it's because of having meningitis when he was very young. Quite a few people have asked him what was up with that and I've never seen him get offended, on the other hand, those are usually people who have known him for quite awhile. If someone who barely knows him feels that's the most pertinent thing to discuss when talking to him, then obviously that would be very rude.

And I think that having an interpersonal relationship kind of gives you more freedom to ask things then if you're a stranger. With transpeople, I think especially in a face to face situation, it would be incredibly degrading to approach a stranger or near stranger just on the basis of them being trans* and begin to ask them questions about it. On the other hand, if you're a friend, or at least an acquaintance and have shown that person respect, then I think it is fine to display curiosity. There are obvious boundaries based on how well you know someone.

If you see a transperson on a bus or at your college campus or workplace just walking by, then asking them pretty much any question about being trans* makes you a fucking asshole, leave them alone, it's none of your fucking business. Or if someone you know has been outed by another person and they aren't openly stating their identity, once again, stay off their backs, there are pretty much no questions that would be welcome.

But, I will say, in defense of the "pro-questioning" side of this debate, that if say your best friend for over a decade, or your sibling, or committed significant other was trans*, then I will say that I think your personal intuition and what you know about them as a human being will serve you better than any guidelines that otherwise are very good advice to follow.

And that's not to say every transperson's best friend or significant other or family member will be tolerant and understanding, because unfortunately bigotry exists in the world and it is very hurtful when people you love are bigots; even if they don't consciously realize it.

Thing is though, I'd rather be asked an insensitive question by a well meaning person who would love me no matter what my identity or anything else, than to be asked a sensitive question by someone who could not accept me. For example, if I came out as bisexual to my family, I'm sure they wouldn't ask me anything overtly personal, but I would probably not feel any acceptance and that would deeply trouble me. Whereas, if I talk about bisexuality with one of my friends, maybe they'll ask "so do you just want to give or are you into receiving too?", that might not be the smartest or most insightful thing anyone has ever asked, but if I sense the person cares about me regardless of my orientation, then I'm not going to be bothered even if their question is otherwise stupid or offensive.

And also I would acknowledge too that sexuality and gender identity is different, and that transpeople generally deal with dysphoria, whereas people who have LGB* sexualities typically are not going to feel intrinsically uncomfortable with their sexuality if they are in an environment without bigotry. So sexual orientation questions are not necessarily the best comparison, though they can serve the purpose of us all having this dialogue.

In short, I think who you are, in regards to the person, is more important than what you ask or how you ask it. If someone feels you care about them, they will feel more comfortable answering you than they would answering someone else asking the same question in the same way. I think too, if someone knows you have empathy for them and care for them, they will be more willing to establish their boundaries, than they would be with someone who really shouldn't be asking questions, where they might lie or shut down completely. And if you truly care for someone, you will respect their boundaries.

But this is really all the more complicated on the internet. People might think that if someone comes out online and declares they are trans*, then they are inviting questions or asking for attention, which isn't true. Sometimes, the internet actually feels like a safer place to tell people things that you don't want to tell those in your offline life. If a person talks openly about their identity here, they aren't necessarily comfortable, this might just be the best place for them and they maybe just have a huge need to tell someone, anyone, because there is no one they can turn to in their life offline.

So Frank's guidelines are actually very good for the internet, because even if someone is your close friend here, there might be so much about them you still don't know. And they are pretty good for offline as well; but so is use of common sense. And I think most people have common sense to know what questions are appropriate for who, and which ones are not.
  • Amanda, CristhyneS, Frank's Penis and 7 others like this

#80
Yussef

Yussef
  • love infinitely

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,344 posts
  • Joined Jun 22, 2006
  • 4,603 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Male
Uhhhh...refusing to answer a question is not ignorant. I think you got confused with your words there, Amanda Boston. :P

I think it's all up to the individual as to what questions are off-limits, instead of just grouping everyone together and saying that all trans people find them offensive, or may find them offensive. You do not speak for every trans individual in the world, you speak for yourself and those who share your point of view. What may seem as an offensive question to you may not be to another. Trans-gendered people are not the only ones who can suffer from dysphoria, but I can't help but feel that that's the only point that you're trying to get across to Alex and Andres. If that's the case, why ask questions to anyone at all about anything that may be different to our own lives? People should not have to worry that their curiosity is always going to trigger a mental and emotional condition. It's human nature to be curious, you can't put a limitation or a rule on that.

  • I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't at any point claim I spoke for all trans* people.
  • No, I did not tell Alex and Andres that only trans* people suffer from dysphoria, but that they should know better not to belittle it. Telling someone to stop being fragile is not that.
  • "People should not have to worry" Can you read what you are saying? Why should I, as a trans* person, have to worry about your curiosity? Am I oppressing you by refusing to answer your invasive questions? As my post said, and as Amanda repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER (seriously, that makes four times), trans* people are not textbooks. Some are more willing to answer questions than not, and you have to tread lightly on this if you do not know the person well beforehand.
  • If you do not want to worry about triggering something, then you ask if it is okay to discuss before heading onto the discussion. That way you save yourself the trouble from an unpleasant situation. You do not plunge right into a whole set of invasive questions just to satisfy your curiosity, it's about respect.
  • Human nature? It's also human nature to fart, yet most people do not do that in public. :P
Also, I did add at the end that I am willing to ask questions within the grounds that you're respectful. So yes, that means I reserve the right to not answer your question. This thread is not about me, if someone wishes to know about my own personal transition then they may ask elsewhere but I am not discussing it here. I did my best to cover all the basics in my opening post, including an article on this and several resources.

I am not going to continue arguing this because several members have now covered it. I do not wish to detract the thread's purpose with all this bickering.
  • Frank's Penis and Little Girl Little One like this

#81
lastnightonGDA

lastnightonGDA
  • splosher

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,106 posts
  • Joined Jun 16, 2010
  • 970 rep
  • Age:19
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Berlin

*
POPULAR

I think it's fair that they only want us to ask if we can ask questions about it. I'm actually really grateful for this thread because I know that if/when I meet another trans* person, I will know how to approach them without asking weird offensive questions. Because I have no idea how weird or offensive these things are because I'm not trans* and have never had to deal with this.

And honestly, back when Frank was just coming to terms with his sexuality (and back when we still talked, lol), he went through a severely hard time. I realized only through this, how fucking shit it is to be born into the wrong body. They have to worry about things that.. we can't even imagine, on top of all the things people usually worry about. So it's only fair that we take a few minutes of our lives to read a few articles about the issues so we can make their lives a little less stressful than they already are.
  • Amanda, CaesarSalad, Yussef and 2 others like this

#82
captain peroxide

captain peroxide
  • Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,770 posts
  • Joined Feb 20, 2007
  • 6,397 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunspear

this isn't an argument. we're trying to explain why some questions are off-limits and you two aren't catching on. i'm a bit worried that you think it merits an argument.


I didn't say I thought it merited an argument, it just seemed like one to me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not getting involved in this debate. Semantics.

#83
IscoredWaddlesgoals

IscoredWaddlesgoals
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,382 posts
  • Joined May 31, 2007
  • 332 rep
  • Gender:Not Telling

I'm looking forward to the day where this isn't an issue anymore. It's retarded that some people hate on instinct, religion, xenophobia or similar reasons.


Oh the irony.


*despairs* 
  • Frank's Penis and Marius Pontmercy like this

#84
CristhyneS

CristhyneS
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,601 posts
  • Joined Sep 07, 2005
  • 1,007 rep
  • Age:23
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Caracas, Venezuela

I didn't say I thought it merited an argument, it just seemed like one to me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not getting involved in this debate. Semantics.


I'm sorry it looked like I was arguing (or trying to). I wasn't.

I only really saw this conversation as good, ol' healthy debate, and I'm a sucker for those. I actually was half agreeing with Andres and was trying to deffend that middle ground between not asking questions at all and asking absolutelly anything that comes to mind without stoping to think if it could be offensive or not. But I think John already covered that really nicely, so I'll just shut up now. :)

#85
Yussef

Yussef
  • love infinitely

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,344 posts
  • Joined Jun 22, 2006
  • 4,603 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Male
I don't know if anyone is interested but I'm going to post a bunch of videos that I think are worth watching:



I really like this guy's videos (and I know a bunch of other channels too) but the Massive Acronym Club would be more appropriate for it. The recent "argument" here reminded me of these two, so I think they're relevant to post.
  • Frank's Penis and dumb shiny bitch like this

#86
dumb shiny bitch

dumb shiny bitch
  • Dominated Love Slave

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,248 posts
  • Joined Jul 26, 2010
  • 1,383 rep
  • Age:21
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland
I love that guy!!
  • Yussef likes this

#87
RokketQueen

RokketQueen
  • Brat

  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Joined Sep 12, 2011
  • 80 rep
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan
I'm not sure if I've ever met a trans person, but if I did then I know I would have questions. I'm the type of person that will ask - not out of nosiness per say, but to understand better. I was born a woman and I feel very comfortable being a woman, but I do believe that there are people out there that were 'born into the wrong sex'. I would think that would just be hell to go through and I quite admire the ones that speak out about it. The masses need to be educated on the subject. The area that I live in is sadly full of racists, homophobes and generally narrow minded people. Thankfully I had parents who had traveled and taught my sisters and I to think outside of the box and I'll do my damndest that my son ends up open minded and accepting as well.

It's like that saying - people hate what they fear and fear is the unknown. Education is the key, but how can you educate without questions being asked.

Just my rambling 2 cents - but a very interesting topic...I learned alot.

#88
Marius Pontmercy

Marius Pontmercy
  • I FEEL MY SOUL ON FIRE

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,574 posts
  • Joined Aug 18, 2010
  • 3,535 rep
  • Age:17
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Sidney Crosby's pants

Education is the key, but how can you educate without questions being asked.


What people here don't understand (not talking to you in particular, but that sentence seems to be the most redundant of this thread), you can't ask certain questions. They might hurt the person you are asking's feelings. What I don't understand is why racism issues, or even feminism issues (to a certain degree) seem to have been "solved", and people don't question when a person says that isn't right. You won't ask an Asian why their eyes are the way they are. You won't say you don't understand, or it's not possible because of evolution. Why? Because you know that's racist, and because it's just not nice. Why is it that when it comes to questions about trans*, people just think it's okay to ask them whatever. I personally think it takes a tremendous amount of courage for a trans* to even come out as such, and say they aren't comfortable with the body they're in. Or their gender is not the right one.

I can understand the need to be educated, because that makes for less bigots, and the less bigotry there is in the world, the better. Like Canadian Amanda said though, trans* people are NOT textbooks. Don't ask them personal questions if you don't know them. Don't ask them tactless questions just because they're the first trans* person you meet.

Asking permission before asking a question should be something that is applied in ANY case, and it seems to be, so why are we having this discussion? Being asked random insensitive questions by random people (or even people you know) makes you feel like a lab animal, constantly being poked and probed to know how you'll react. That's why you should ask beforehand. If you're so desperate for answers, there are a tremendous amount of resources available in the Massive Acronym Club. They should help answer pretty much any questions you've got.
  • Amanda, Frank's Penis and Yussef like this

#89
Emilie.

Emilie.
  • Super Nintendo Chalmers

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,798 posts
  • Joined Jun 18, 2010
  • 4,298 rep
  • Age:17
  • Gender:Other
  • Location:Brisbane
If you have questions there is Google. People have made blogs and sites for the purpose of educating other people on this subject so others won't have to. It's not like asking people in real life is the only way to get information or become educated.
  • Frank's Penis, Yussef and Marius Pontmercy like this

#90
Rush guy

Rush guy
  • Chump

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 384 posts
  • Joined May 12, 2011
  • 97 rep
  • Gender:Male
I have a very simple question to ask, and it's actually about the limitations of the english language. Pronouns- what do I do with them for a transgender person? The english language is unfortunately limited in the third person to he, she, it, and they. "It" would technically be the gender neutral, but I REALLY do not want to use that for human beings.

So, if you're comfortable, can you let us know what the correct third-person pronoun would be for you? If neither of the gender-identified ones work for you, let us know how we should be structuring our sentences.

Would it be "they," even though it's technically plural?

For now, I'll stick to what your profile says under gender. So, for Dr. Frank, I would put a "he." If no gender is selected, I'll be very crafty in avoiding the third person pronouns or just use "they" and "them."



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: GDC, News

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users