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#1
Yussef

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As much as we all love them (except, like, Andres but whatevs), sorry this thread isn't about boobs!

I realise there is already a trans thread on the forum but I feel this topic is important on its own. In a lot of cases, people here tend to ignore threads which they feel are not relevant to their lives which I understand (sorry Indian club) but as progressives and liberals, you should read this. This thread is not only important to me, but to society in general and I'm hoping to get a few open ears and minds for this. I would greatly appreciate it.

When a slur against a person of colour or against someone's sexuality is used on here, people act right away. If we aren't victims of homophobia, or racism, we do not argue against the oppressed and that's good. People on this forum are able to acknowledge that in general, it's a pretty mean thing to speak for those who are being oppressed. We do not take away their voices because we don't know how those words may trigger them, we have not been what they have been through. Unfortunately, it is not quite the same when dealing with transgender rights. I've seen the word "tranny" being used here a few times without anyone batting an eyelid at it. There's no other way around me saying this - this is not okay.

Earlier in the year, I was both warned and suspended under the accusation that I was discussing certain issues where they weren't relevant and baiting other members into arguments. The issue at hand in most cases that I was told to shut the fuck up was about being transgender and when it is acceptable to bring this topic up. I'm going to start by telling you upfront, the topic is relevant in any issue that involves people. If you think it's okay to only mention cis women in an abortion topic, think again. If you think it's okay to talk about vagina power under the grounds of being a feminist, I urge you to think again.

I know that this one of the least understood topics in the queer spectrum and what genitals we may have, our sexuality, how we have sex etc. would spark some curiosity. But! Just like you wouldn't ask a gay couple how their sex life is, you do not ask a trans* person unless they wish to tell you. We are not textbooks, we are not google, we're people who share the same emotions. I'm really awful at writing things and not being lazy so here's an article that I think addresses this topic well:

Trans Etiquette 101: No Offense, But That's Offensive

I know, we're all lazy arses so here's a couple of highlighted points from the article:
  • Ask permission to ask questions.
  • Do not ask questions that in any way challenge the trans person’s gender identity or expression or could obviously lead to dysphoria.
  • Do not ask what the person’s birth name was.
  • Request specific permission to ask questions relating to genitalia
All I ask is for you is to speak up just as you would against sexism, racism or homophobia. Every time a trans* person is denied an inclusion in an abortion debate under the grounds that it's wrong timing, I wish you would realise this does nothing but push our rights back. I have a uterus and I have ovaries, and I am not a woman. No part of me ever was, but I can get pregnant. All I ask is to be recognised. I ask for the trans* community to be acknowledged, because this is the only way for society to move forward. I know, some of you have heard this before and some of you may think it doesn't matter but if you are under that impression, then you have not paid enough attention.

I'll add a few resources for anyone who is interested and you're all free to ask me anything if you wish, just please be respectful.

http://www.autostrad...lture/gender-2/
This is primarily a lesbian site although it has a good section on gender issues.

http://neutrois.tumblr.com/
This is a pretty good tumblr on non-binary genders.

http://transgenderexpress.tumblr.com/
And this is a blog led by a lovely trans woman, who usually responds to many questions dealing with this topic and still manages to look fabulous in the process of doing so.

There's loads more all over the internetz and I feel I've already written enough so I'm just going..now..

Thanks to anyone who reads this.


John's Addendum:

To my GDC friends, acquaintances, and strangers:

Frank wrote this thread to highlight a very important issue we face here. I want to make clear one thing; this is not an issue of being "politically" correct, nor is the common decency to be reasonably educated about this topic all for the sake of one person. I know of at least 5 regular posters on this forum who do not identify with a binary gender or are trans*, and those only account for those who have openly stated so. Coming out is a courageous act, and it is no wonder some would prefer to stay silent when so few people care.

When even gays, bisexuals, and lesbians largely neglect to care about trans issues, when millions of people worldwide are marginalized, there is something wrong. Transpeople all across the world face perhaps worse discrimination than anyone else, up to and including being murdered or driven to suicide, yes, even in the Western world, and this epidemic of hate is ignored and swept under the rug.

I have decided this thread should be pinned for a week for all to see, after which I plan on it being linked to from a permanent statement of anti-discrimination. To all those with over 100 posts, the clubs forum hosts the Massive Acronym Club, where you can learn more (so long as you ask respectfully). We welcome people of all and no genders there, all orientations, and heterosexual and cisgender allies. The Massive Acronym Club will, so long as I am a moderator, always be a safe place where discrimination and hate speech will never be allowed.

Someone you know may be trans* or non-binary or any other of these marginalized identity; here or offline. They deserve respect.
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#2
Marius Pontmercy

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Go Frank!
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#3
Princess Consuela

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<3
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#4
CaesarSalad

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this might sound like a no-brainer but it's so so so important for people to know how to respect a person, and it's just not fair or right that trans* people are not shown that same respect. i've no doubt that lots of people here want to do their best so read up, lovelies.

thank you for posting this, frank :)

<3
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#5
Floyd Pinkerton

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Well, the thread title certainly got my attention. :lol:
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#6
Squidhard

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You are an inspiration for me, and I need you to know how much I appreciate what you said. It would be awesome if every single person here read this post and understood that Trans* people have feelings too, delicate feelings, I would say.
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#7
Maria Gloria

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Thank you for posting this. Just like mentioned above it's so important for everyone to be treated with equal respect and I think this cleared up some of my ignorance on this subject - I hope it does for some other people too. Of course it matters.
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#8
Artificial Idiot

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Fight, the man Frank! You got the power!
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#9
Sarcasm

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I'm looking forward to the day where this isn't an issue anymore. It's retarded that some people hate on instinct, religion, xenophobia or similar reasons.
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#10
elisa

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thank you for posting this and for those links, frank.
sometimes people can be offensive without even realizing it.

sorry this thread isn't about boobs!

:(
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#11
Amanda

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Why hasn't this thread been pinned yet?
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#12
Yussef

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You are an inspiration for me, and I need you to know how much I appreciate what you said. It would be awesome if every single person here read this post and understood that Trans* people have feelings too, delicate feelings, I would say.

This makes me so happy to read. Ahhhhhhhhh. I teared up (a lot shut up), thank you so much.
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#13
chickin'pickin'

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No boobs.

No substitute.

#14
KarlyLovesGD

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Thanks for this Frank!
This helped me to understand this subject just a bit better. :)
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#15
Johnny.

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For someone who knows nothing about this topic, this was interesting and eye-opening (had no idea 'tranny' was offensive, wont use it again)
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#16
Trotsky

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I'm glad you wrote this, Frank. :)

I think, depending on the opinions of both my fellow mods and everyone here, I should write up a policy for this forum declaring that it should be free from all types of discrimination, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia, and it will make the useful information you wrote here available to see.
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#17
Amanda

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Nice one, Trotsky :J
Now be a good chap and pin the thread :P
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#18
CristhyneS

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Nice post Frank! :)

I think sometimes the reason why people can be offensive towards trans people is because of lack of information (other times is just because they want to offend though, and that's unfortunate). Like the case of Johnny for example, who just found out the word "tranny" was offensive, I'm sure I too might have said something that could be considered offensive without actually meaning any harm, and maybe I will do it again (and if that ever happens I do apologize in advance), because this is such an complex topic, with so many shades, and such an extensive terminology.

That's why I think posts/threads like these are so important, because with just a bit more of information on some topics, a lot of people could stop being/be less offensive.
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#19
DannyDirnt

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I don't really have much problem respecting people, because I am bisexual and I'm not racist but that makes me think: Hey, what's with that people? I mean, what is so disturbing about it that they have to bash someone for it? And even it's something that they can't change, so I wonder what kind of issues the people who doesn't respect sexuality and races have at home.

My brother-in-law saw once in my house about his baby son: "If my son turned out to be gay, I'd be really sad. I respect gay people, but I don't want them near me". I just though that what kind of respect is that? That's just ane xcuse to not look like an homophobic shit. I admit I felt kinda sorry for my nephew, because I know he'll always have that thing of his father caring negatively about that.
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#20
ThibautDookie

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Lol, when i saw the topic's name, i thought that there will be some naked womens, but i was wrong :P

#21
Yussef

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Lol, when i saw the topic's name, i thought that there will be some naked womens, but i was wrong http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

If you want boobies, just wait until I get my new glittery nipple stud. :D
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#22
Trotsky

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Actual boobs are always a click away anyway.
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#23
Vesper

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I totally get not being discriminatory or offensive because that's completely unreasonable, and I am glad you set out what might considered offensive to various groups of people. What did confuse me slightly was this "If you think it's okay to only mention cis women in an abortion topic, think again. If you think it's okay to talk about vagina power under the grounds of being a feminist, I urge you to think again." - does that mean nobody can talk about anything without asking a group's permission first? Or is that a statement that more than cis-women/vaginas can be involved in abortion/feminism...?

#24
Yussef

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I totally get not being discriminatory or offensive because that's completely unreasonable, and I am glad you set out what might considered offensive to various groups of people. What did confuse me slightly was this "If you think it's okay to only mention cis women in an abortion topic, think again. If you think it's okay to talk about vagina power under the grounds of being a feminist, I urge you to think again." - does that mean nobody can talk about anything without asking a group's permission first? Or is that a statement that more than cis-women/vaginas can be involved in abortion/feminism...?

I meant that not only cis women can get pregnant and therefore have the choice to abort, and the feminism issue is that trans women are usually not included because they are not "biological" women. Genitalia has nothing to do with what makes a woman, despite what many feminists believe. What I ask is for them to be included because they are very much relevant to both issues.

#25
Vesper

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I meant that not only cis women can get pregnant and therefore have the choice to abort, and the feminism issue is that trans women are usually not included because they are not "biological" women. What I ask is for them to be included because they are very much relevant to both issues.


Okay cool. I get it now.
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#26
dumb shiny bitch

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I'm proud of you for writing this Frank. I got a bit emotional there reading it, not gonna lie! Even something as simple as beginning this thread is making a difference.




:)
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#27
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This is great, Frank. :happy:
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#28
Ritz

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Thanks for posting this, it cleared a lot of things for me. Yes, everybody must be treated equally but sometimes due to lack of knowledge, people don't even know that their words can be offensive to other people.
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#29
kirbyclub15

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I know a few of my friends who are trans-gendered and they are pretty awesome and i try not to question them about it (besides whenever one of them changes their name or something) and i also didn't know that 'tranny' was offensive either (gotta tell my cousin not to say that anymore) o:
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#30
Yussef

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Thanks for posting this, it cleared a lot of things for me. Yes, everybody must be treated equally but sometimes due to lack of knowledge, people don't even know that their words can be offensive to other people.

Aye, this is true. We've all been guilty of being assholes at times out of ignorance on what we were dealing with. I suppose in cases like those what matters most is to listen and to learn from it.
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