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Situation Debate (Concerning Sexual Assault) (Read further)

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#31 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:40 PM

sorry, i worded that wrong: he attempted to go down on her, she said no and pushed him away, he left that alone. she continued with this tactic and it didn't work when it came to actual penetration. cause the guy's a cunt.

Again, how is this not an open and shut case?

#32 klytaemnestra

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:46 PM

Again, how is this not an open and shut case?

the fact that she made him put a condom on. if the case went to court, which it didn't, she would have been ripped to shreds.

#33 kelly42fox

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

after a certain point, my best friend didn't say no. it wasn't working. she, in fact, reached for a condom when she realised he wouldn't stop for anything. you could say she wanted it - her rapist has. on paper, her case looks like she fucked him, regretted it, and cried rape. actually speaking to her about it, however... you'd have to be both deaf and blind not to believe her. i don't particularly give a shit what anyone else says, anything less than a "yes" or active participation is not consent. and yes, this was a social situation. she'd been drinking. he had not.

also - "unfair to the other person"? WHAT? unfair to a rapist? no such fucking thing, my friend. that's a disgusting attitude, imo.


Ok... see now you're giving more information on a situation... See, she DID give an indication that she wanted him to stop, tho... Trying to get a condom, but him not stopping?! That's FUCKED UP. That IS assault.

I'm REALLY sorry for your friend. I pray that she's ok.

#34 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

the fact that she made him put a condom on. if the case went to court, which it didn't, she would have been ripped to shreds.

Ahh, fuck. A terrible, terrible injustice and I'm sorry it had to happen to your friend. This isn't one of those "black and white" situations at all though, I think most will be in agreement with me that if the word "no" is spoken (especially with physically shoving him back) then that is clearly rape. No ifs or buts.

#35 Vesper

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

Cases like this rarely are black and white.

#36 Yussef

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:54 PM

Please add a trigger warning.
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#37 Penguin Puffball

 
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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:53 PM

Drunk=rape
Dancing sexily without giving verbal consent=rape
Taking shirts off without giving verbal concent=rape
No matter what gender.

#38 Vesper

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:10 AM

And yet the law doesn't always seem to see it as such...?

#39 Yussef

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:11 AM

no

because patriarchy and pseudo science and greedy people
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#40 Vesper

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:14 AM

no

because patriarchy and pseudo science and greedy people


Is it that simple? I've never looked into legal cases such as these but where does the law (not how we/you think it should) draw the line on reasonable prevarication?

#41 Yussef

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:28 AM

How is prevarication ever reasonable...?
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#42 Penguin Puffball

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:31 AM

The law and government don't care about us, that's why.

#43 Sofouska

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:39 AM

http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... Do we?


"Most men", not all of men. And I'm sorry, but from what I often see, I don't think men regard women as important as they think they are.

#44 Penguin Puffball

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:49 AM

Woah. What is this fuckery that staying quiet is implied consent and is unfair to the rapist? Silence is not consent. When I was assaulted, I was so scared I froze up and couldn't speak. Did I consent too?
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#45 chatnoir

 
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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

When it's not necessarily about rape, but about other kinds of sexual assault (remarks, groping, ass smacking etc), if you're scantily clad you are much more likely to experience that than when you're walking around in sweatpants and a hoodie.

But is it really? Is there any proof, this isn't just an assumption?

I was once assaulted by a bunch of guys on my way home from going out in town. They hung around at a place I walked by and started making remarks and one of them kind of ran after me and grabbed my ass, before I even noticed what was happening. I wore normal jeans and t-shirt. If anything, the situation has been provoked by the place being not crowded anymore, because it was after midnight and me already giving them a scared look when I had noticed them.

Another situation happened to a friend of mine, who also wore completely normal clothes. She was out dancing in a club and knowing her, she isn't the sexily dancing type either, but one guy kept trying to get near her and to dance very close to her. Shit started immediately, as soon as she made gestures to be left alone (not giving him the finger, just polite gestures) and later also told him, that she wanted to be left alone. He actually grabbed her once and later when they had a verbal fight, he told her, he would wait for her to leave and then he would rape her, because she were an arrogant cunt.

Both situations had nothing to do with the way we dressed.

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#46 xBasKetxCaSex

 
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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:09 PM

Woah. What is this fuckery that staying quiet is implied consent and is unfair to the rapist? Silence is not consent. When I was assaulted, I was so scared I froze up and couldn't speak. Did I consent too?

Didn't say staying quiet, said Going along with it... as in, enjoying, participating, not being scared and freezing up.

#47 Penguin Puffball

 
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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:32 PM

Ohhhh, okay. I misunderstood that then.

#48 Rush guy

 
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 03:53 AM

Well, I take issue with the phrase "inviting sexual assault." It seems like a bad excuse that sex offenders retreat to. The person who makes the unwanted advance is at fault. The penis persuades but it does not control.

Does seeing boobs cause you to unzip your pants or extend your hand? Absolutely not. You are the one who decides to satisfy the urge. Psychology is not something that happens to you; it's a part of you. Therefore, you must do your part to reel in YOUR impulses. It's not just society and it's not just evolution- it's YOU.

I'm a big fan of Sartre, and both of these situations reek of bad faith. Blame is put on external things and people fail to take responsibility. So, you weren't in control of your actions but your equally drunk partner was? We like to take responsibility when things go our way, but we push it aside when they go south.
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#49 Rush guy

 
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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:27 AM

Does the silence mean that we all agree to a reasonable extent on a complicated issue for once?? Sweet!

#50 Penguin Puffball

 
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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

^:lol:

#51 Frank's Penis

 
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Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:58 PM

Well it is a fucking stupid thing to debate. If you want sex, get consent. If a person is too drunk to give consent, don't have sex with them. If knowing when a person is consenting to sex is too complicated for you, you shouldn't be having sex, go fuck yourself. If you have sex with a person without their consent, die die die in the worst possible manner you fucking rapist.
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#52 Vesper

 
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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:03 AM

This debate wasn't necessarily supposed to be about sex but I guess it's difficult to entirely articulate what you mean in an OP... never mind. It was supposed to be about drawing lines, the way the law sees things, reasonable aggravation (does that even exist?), consent and then changing your mind, physical impulse over mental etc...



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