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Indianapolis student expelled for self-defense

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#1
MrsBillieJoe95

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Yesterday, a student at an Indianapolis school was expelled after bring a stun gun with him to school for self defense against kids who were bullying him for being gay.

content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/bullied-gay-teen-brings-stun-gun-to-school-faces-expulsion/1#.T6ukhsUi-Vo

He had told the school many times and they did nothing, so his mother gave him a stun gun to use as protection and after using it to scare off the bullies, he's been expelled. The kids who were bullying him currently have not had any punishment of any sort for bullying the kid. He's 17 years old and currently (as I'm understanding it anyway) will not be allowed to go back to the school until the 2nd semester of his senior year.

Thoughts on this? I think this is absolute bull crap personally! What's a kid supposed to do when being bullied and the fucking school won't even help him?!
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more links same story:
http://www2.nbc4i.co...ies-ar-1029069/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKT7HuSFzyY
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If you're not able to get on the link or anything, here's what one article says from http://articles.cnn....l-year?_s=PM:US

A gay teenager who pulled a stun gun on students he said bullied him has been expelled from his Indianapolis high school until January.
"While the district does not condone bullying, it also does not allow weapons to be brought on our school campuses for any reason," a spokeswoman for Indianapolis Public Schools said Tuesday. "Students who violate this rule will be held accountable."

Darnell "Dynasty" Young's mother sent her 17-year-old son to school with a stun gun because, she said, administrators didn't do enough to stop the bullying against him.


Students take part in anti-bullying programs from kindergarten through 12th grade, district spokeswoman Mary Louise Bewley said. The district also offers Gay Straight Alliance groups on multiple campuses, including Arsenal Technical High School, where Young attended, Bewley said.

"The district does not condone bullying," she said. "Students who violate the rights of others through bullying behaviors are held accountable."
The school district held an expulsion hearing last week and the decision was announced Tuesday.

"The Indianapolis Public Schools has affirmed the decision of the expulsion hearing examiner to expel Darnell Young from Arsenal Technical High School for the remainder of this school year through the first semester of the 2012-13 school year," it said. "He may return to school in IPS on Jan. 7, 2013."
His mother, Chelisa Grimes, sent her son to school with the stun gun after he said he was taunted and bullied for months.

Grimes told CNN's Don Lemon on Sunday that she would do it again, despite the threat of expulsion.

"I do not promote violence -- not at all -- but what is a parent to do when she has done everything that she felt she was supposed to do ... at the school?" Grimes said. "I did feel like there was nothing else left for me to do but protect my child."
"I brought the stun gun 'cause I wasn't safe," the teen said.

After six other students surrounded him at school on April 16, calling him names and threatening to beat him up, Young pulled the stun gun from his backpack. He raised it in the air, setting off an electric charge, and sending the group scurrying, Young said.
Unlike a Taser, which fires barbs attached to long wires at a target, a stun gun must be near or pressed against a person to shock him.


"I got kicked out of school for me bringing the weapon to school, but I honestly don't think that that was fair," Young said. "I didn't use it on nobody ... all I did was raise it up in the air and went back to my class."

School police officers arrested him a short time later and took him away in handcuffs, The Indianapolis Star reported. School officials are investigating the incident, but none of the students who allegedly surrounded Young have been positively identified.


Young is known as a flamboyant dresser and Larry Yarrell, the Tech principal, said school staff had been trying to get him to "tone down" his accessories.
"If you wear female apparel, then kids are kids and they're going to say whatever it is that they want to say," Yarrell told The Star. "Because you want to be different and because you choose to wear female apparel, it may happen. In the idealistic society, it shouldn't matter. People should be able to wear what they want to wear."

Grimes contends that school officials haven't done enough to protect all students on campus.
"I think that the self-protection device is what's making the news, but the big picture is that my child is not the only one who does not feel safe at our school," she said.

It is a common complaint among lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) students.
A 2009 survey of 7,261 middle and high school students found that nearly nine out of 10 LGBT students had experienced harassment at school over the previous year and nearly two-thirds felt unsafe because of their sexual orientation.

Young said rumors around campus suggested he was "doing nasty stuff" with teachers. The rumors took their toll.
"I was at my wit's end. I didn't know what to do and I thought about suicide," Young said. "I hate saying that word because God blessed me with this life. I love life. I love my education. I would never ... but this bullying got so bad that I thought about that."


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#2
Black Dynamite

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Youtube videos where the hosts sound and act like they've taken about 10 lines of cocaine before they start filming are beginning to grate on me now.

Anywho... Kid gets bullied, principal tells kid to stop acting so gay... Where to even begin.

Also, this popped into my head thinking about it. :P

Spoiler

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#3
mechanicalman

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He tried his best, and he failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
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Maria Gloria

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Ugh. Sadly that's usually the way it is with bullies. It's the victim who ends up in trouble. Schools are always so shit about it, maybe he shouldn't have taken the stun gun but it's really down to the school to get their act together. Ridiculous to expel him when they just ignored the problem.
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MrsBillieJoe95

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Ugh. Sadly that's usually the way it is with bullies. It's the victim who ends up in trouble. Schools are always so shit about it, maybe he shouldn't have taken the stun gun but it's really down to the school to get their act together. Ridiculous to expel him when they just ignored the problem.


That's the only thing I can really understand him getting in trouble for was the stun gun. That's the only logical thing that I can see him being in trouble about! What else is a kid supposed to do who's being bullied and the people who are supposed to help and protect him won't??

He tried his best, and he failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.


unfortunately, that's the way it seems :mad:

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okay, i get that he wants to defend himself from those pathetic bullies, but isn't a stun gun a little bit overdone?
if he used it but it went wrong, he could have killed them.. also, bringing firearms or other weapons to school is illegal, stupid idea from the start.

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Kayfabe

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That's not a punishment, that's a gift. Who the hell actually wants to be in that shitty, lopsided, lazy,overly-bureaucratic shithole school anyway. Let them rot in that cess-pool, I'd be glad I got the hell out.

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MrsBillieJoe95

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okay, i get that he wants to defend himself from those pathetic bullies, but isn't a stun gun a little bit overdone?
if he used it but it went wrong, he could have killed them.. also, bringing firearms or other weapons to school is illegal, stupid idea from the start.


I think the only way it could have killed anyone is if someone had heart problems or if he had gotten them in the face. I can't really imagine someone managing to kill another with a stun gun considering they're not made to be powerful enough to actually do any harm. I can't see it causing much harm physically. You'd have to be doing some extremely dumb things to do any permanent/real damage.

If they had an actual taser (as in the actual gun-like ones with prods), then I can understand someone becoming extremely injured, but not really a stun gun.

I doubt he was actually going to fully use it on them anyway. Most people back off once they hear the crackle and snapping of them, so there's generally no need to use them (obviously this is for those who aren't extremely crazy). As dumb as it was for him to take the taser to school, it's very unfortunate and extremely irritating that it came to it. I think it could have been taken care of had the school taken action earlier against the bullies.

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I think the only way it could have killed anyone is if someone had heart problems or if he had gotten them in the face. I can't really imagine someone managing to kill another with a stun gun considering they're not made to be powerful enough to actually do any harm. I can't see it causing much harm physically. You'd have to be doing some extremely dumb things to do any permanent/real damage.

If they had an actual taser (as in the actual gun-like ones with prods), then I can understand someone becoming extremely injured, but not really a stun gun.

I doubt he was actually going to fully use it on them anyway. Most people back off once they hear the crackle and snapping of them, so there's generally no need to use them (obviously this is for those who aren't extremely crazy). As dumb as it was for him to take the taser to school, it's very unfortunate and extremely irritating that it came to it. I think it could have been taken care of had the school taken action earlier against the bullies.

I think the only way it could have killed anyone is if someone had heart problems or if he had gotten them in the face. I can't really imagine someone managing to kill another with a stun gun considering they're not made to be powerful enough to actually do any harm. I can't see it causing much harm physically. You'd have to be doing some extremely dumb things to do any permanent/real damage.

If they had an actual taser (as in the actual gun-like ones with prods), then I can understand someone becoming extremely injured, but not really a stun gun.

I doubt he was actually going to fully use it on them anyway. Most people back off once they hear the crackle and snapping of them, so there's generally no need to use them (obviously this is for those who aren't extremely crazy). As dumb as it was for him to take the taser to school, it's very unfortunate and extremely irritating that it came to it. I think it could have been taken care of had the school taken action earlier against the bullies.


10.000 volt directly in your spine is quite lethal

#10
MrsBillieJoe95

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10.000 volt directly in your spine is quite lethal


That's only assuming that he would have been able to get that close to one of them. A lot of people go for the chest or side (from what I've noticed at least).
I'd have to say that for this particular situation, he wouldn't have truly been able to do the maximum amount of damage possible. At the most, my best guess is that he would have probably gotten their attention and just kinda emotionally scarred them for a while.

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Vesper

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I get that he felt he had to defend himself but a stun gun was NOT the answer. No wonder he got into trouble. There is no excuse for bringing any sort of firearm into a school. Bullying is despicable (having been a victims myself) but violence is never the answer.

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I get that he felt he had to defend himself but a stun gun was NOT the answer. No wonder he got into trouble. There is no excuse for bringing any sort of firearm into a school. Bullying is despicable (having been a victims myself) but violence is never the answer.


this.

#13
Trotsky

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Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if a few homophobes got their skulls bashed. Gay kids have been beaten, raped, and murdered for decades. A militant stand including some direct action and violence in self-defense might be for the best.

The real shame is rather than needing a stun gun to defend himself, he should have had fellow students willing to take a stand for him. But the ones that aren't bullies are usually apathetic. Should weapons be involved? Probably not. But LGBT kids in high school need allies. I stood up for my LGBT friends numerous times. I don't say that because I want people think I was a heroic person, cause it's not a heroic thing to do at all, it's basic human decency.

I get that he felt he had to defend himself but a stun gun was NOT the answer. No wonder he got into trouble. There is no excuse for bringing any sort of firearm into a school. Bullying is despicable (having been a victims myself) but violence is never the answer.


I was only left alone in high school after I shoved a bully against the wall, got an inch from his face, and made it clear I was completely willing to hurt him. After that I was not bothered again.
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Vesper

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Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if a few homophobes got their skulls bashed. Gay kids have been beaten, raped, and murdered for decades. A militant stand including some direct action and violence might be for the best.


I agree that homophobia has no place in our society but I don't think potentially serious violence is ever the answer. EVER.

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if a few homophobes got their skulls bashed. Gay kids have been beaten, raped, and murdered for decades. A militant stand including some direct action and violence might be for the best.



I was only left alone in high school after I shoved a bully against the wall, got an inch from his face, and made it clear I was completely willing to hurt him. After that I was not bothered again.


Hmmm I was violent against my bully too after he stalked me home. I kicked him the nuts. The next day I found that I was the one in trouble - not him. I agree that desperation can lead you to do things. And maybe a bully getting threatened isn't a bad thing. A stun gun is too far though.

#15
Trotsky

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Hmmm I was violent against my bully too after he stalked me home. I kicked him the nuts. The next day I found that I was the one in trouble - not him. I agree that desperation can lead you to do things. And maybe a bully getting threatened isn't a bad thing. A stun gun is too far though.


My cousin once got suspended from school for hitting a guy who was groping her and wanted to sexually assault her. Luckily her parents were understanding that she did the right thing. As far as I'm concerned, he crossed that line, whatever she does to him is fair retaliation.

Thing is, the school authorities would actually say, it's better to get molested and then report it than to use force to defend yourself, and that is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard in my life.
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My cousin once got suspended from school for hitting a guy who was groping her and wanted to sexually assault her. Luckily her parents were understanding that she did the write thing. As far as I'm concerned, he crossed that line, whatever she does to him is fair retaliation.


It's really difficult to articulate what I'm trying to say in a forum because I always want to modify it. Where is the line between self-defence and violence?

A guy (my bully) once came into my house (through the door that I was stupid enough to open thinking it was the postman) and demanded that I gave him things before he would leave. I screamed at him to leave but felt defenceless because he was in my house. If he had tried anything (luckily he didn't) I wouldn't have hesitated kicking him again, screaming, punching him etc... but when he walked in through the front door, I didn't immediately batter him...

#17
Maria Gloria

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The thing is though, if the school had dealt with it then he wouldn't have taken the stun gun. Sure that shouldn't be the answer but why are schools not trying harder to find an answer for stopping bullying? Obviously that's a rhetorical question though, they just don't have the balls.

I was bullied verbally, physically, sexually and threatened... I either got in trouble myself or the school didn't believe me at the best. I had chairs thrown at me once and all that happened was that a teacher told me off for making a mess. As for the groping and sexual harrassment, I think the woman I told laughed and made some remark about how she found it hard to believe that someone would want to sexually harrass me.
I mean I still wouldn't have taken a stun gun, but I understand the frustration or whatever that drove him to do that. No, violence isn't and shouldn't be the answer, but there are days when you'd do practically anything just to get them to leave you alone.

I guess that's just a rant about bullying in general, I don't know enough about this situation specifically to really judge what he was feeling or how reasonable his actions were.
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Black Dynamite

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The sad truth is that Teachers are too goddamn lazy to stop bullying, or they just don't give a shit. They're getting paid to teach, not worry about who's getting picked on. Maybe it'll change when the next generation become teachers but who knows.

When I was bullied in school back in the day, I just joined in. You develop a thick skin pretty quickly when you become able to take the piss out of yourself. Not exactly great advice, but it made school a hell of a lot easier for me. Did leave me with a few self confidence issues in the long run though. So don't do that actually...:P

#19
MrsBillieJoe95

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It's really difficult to articulate what I'm trying to say in a forum because I always want to modify it. Where is the line between self-defence and violence?


I'd say it depends on the situation honestly to say where the line is drawn.
There's a lot of factors that you have to consider imo:
  • time frame between the incident and the action taken.
  • what action was taken
  • the amount of damage done
  • how necessary it was to take the action taken
  • were they better methods
So on and so forth.
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Don't get me wrong, I understand what you and others who say that he probably deserved to get in trouble with the stun gun and how he handled it (I agree that a stun gun was a bit too far, especially at school) are saying, but I would say that the only reason his method and timing of defense is really only seen as violent because of it taking place at a school.
Hear me out for a moment: had this occurred at a more public place (such as a parking lot), people would have said that it was appropriate and in a sense smart to have used a stun gun to get the person off from them and get away safe. In a setting like school though, due to the fact that weapons, firearms, and all that other fun stuff are prohibited, it's "violent" since they think that everything can simply be talked out when sometimes it takes more than that.

I'm trying not to seem so closed minded about it, but to me it's kind of hard to do when I really think that the situation was a bunch of bull crap :P I think there probably could have been a better method to handling the bullies, but at the same time where were the teachers and other staff members when this was all going down?

#20
Trotsky

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Self-defense should not be, as some have implied, doing the bare minimum it takes to be able to run away. If you can follow this metaphor, you should have the right to do what it takes to walk away. Victims should not have to run, victims should not have to hide. They should be able to stand up for themselves. Justified retaliation is not just limited to actual defense of your own self, but inflicting harm in return up to the point the aggressor is no longer capable of continuing to hurt you.

And yes, schools, including the high school I went to, have told victims they should submit to assault, including sexual assault, rather than fight back. And fuck that. Fuck that times a million. If someone inflicts harm on you without provocation, then you should not feel that you must endure whatever they are about to do to you. Sometimes, people who are overpowered or in serious danger of grievous harm have no choice but to submit, and that is terribly tragic. But for the people with the means to fight back, they damn well should.
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Cori

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The kid shouldn't have brought the stun gun to school, but the teachers or principal should have done something about the fact that he was being bullied. Nobody should have to deal with being bullied for such things. Also, it annoys me to no end that the principal told him to "tone down" the way he was dressing. He can dress however he likes as long as he wasn't violating any school dress codes.
This isn't anything new for Indianapolis high schools, though. It always seems like I'm always turning on the news and somebody is getting bullied or hazed for some reason in an Indianapolis high school. It probably has something to do with the high number of narrow-minded people we have here in Indiana. Then again, I suppose there are narrow-minded people everywhere, but it just seems like we get even more of them here.
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MrsBillieJoe95

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The kid shouldn't have brought the stun gun to school, but the teachers or principal should have done something about the fact that he was being bullied. Nobody should have to deal with being bullied for such things. Also, it annoys me to no end that the principal told him to "tone down" the way he was dressing. He can dress however he likes as long as he wasn't violating any school dress codes.
This isn't anything new for Indianapolis high schools, though. It always seems like I'm always turning on the news and somebody is getting bullied or hazed for some reason in an Indianapolis high school. It probably has something to do with the high number of narrow-minded people we have here in Indiana. Then again, I suppose there are narrow-minded people everywhere, but it just seems like we get even more of them here.


I know exactly how that goes :pinch: That's why I'm glad I don't quite live in Indy :)
We have a lot of narrow minded people here, but i've never actually heard of anyone being bullied this badly at my school.
Sadly, there will always be narrow minded people :S =/ It really is pretty upsetting to realize that even if schools could 100% stop bullying from happening on their grounds, it would happen outside of school :sigh:
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Queen Elrilmalia

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This is awful! And this is very upsetting! :angry
I read in some newspaper article that kids would get depressed for being homosexual or bullied from it. They would later commit suicide from depression. They are poeple too! :o And whats worst is that some people dont try to stop it.
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#24
Penguin Puffball

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Yeah, it sucks he's being bullied, but bringing a weapon to a school is an idiotic move.
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MrsBillieJoe95

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Yeah, it sucks he's being bullied, but bringing a weapon to a school is an idiotic move.


it may have been an idiotic move, but then again this is Indianapolis we're talking about :lol: I think as dumb as it was to do, [for lack of a better wording] it almost was necessary in his case. Clearly the school decided that they aren't going to do jack shit about it, and if he can't defend himself in a manner that stops the problem and kept the school happy, so he had to take it a step further. Unfortunately it had to come to that



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