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Communism: Yay or Nay?

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232 replies to this topic

#61
johndorkian

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bullshit. people are greedy. if someone goes through years of med school to become the most skilled doctor in their field, they will damn sure want their pay, no matter how much they enjoy their job. fascism is also not good.

#62
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communism: yay
+1 for equality
+1 for governmental control
if only they wouldn't have a 5 year plan
if only everyone would be motivated
if only every single piece of land was equally fertile.

#63
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communism: yay
+1 for equality
+1 for governmental control
if only they wouldn't have a 5 year plan
if only everyone would be motivated
if only every single piece of land was equally fertile.


If only, if only, if only, if only...

But in all seriousness. If communism were implicated; would you be happy to have the exact same as everyone else, even if that were less than you have now?

#64
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If only, if only, if only, if only...

But in all seriousness. If communism were implicated; would you be happy to have the exact same as everyone else, even if that were less than you have now?


depends, if government provided everyone with good internet, had free data exchange, and regulated work hours, and i don't have to work 2 hours extra every single fucking time: yes, yes i would be happy

#65
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It's a sweet thought but I don't believe that communism can ever exist. There have never been real communism. If there is a leader it's not communism, cause it's about everybody being even. But there will always be people who want to be more.
Another problem is that if everybody is even, everybody will get as much money as others no matter what. The result of this would be that there would be no competition which is important in a society. Too many people would feel that they don't have to work because they would have a fine life anyway with money. Denmark is not a communist country at all but yet we have problems with people not working because they'll get help and money anyway. So I simply believe that the society will fall apart. The human is too selfish for communism.

#66
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I don't believe all the people who say they'd be happy being the same as everyone else.

#67
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If only, if only, if only, if only...

But in all seriousness. If communism were implicated; would you be happy to have the exact same as everyone else, even if that were less than you have now?

I read The Communist Manifesto and what Marx dreamt of wasn't everyone having the exact same (which is the Stalinian conception of communism), but more of everyone getting the exact earning they deserve depending on how hard they work.
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#68
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And give the government total control? No thanks.

#69
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I don't believe all the people who say they'd be happy being the same as everyone else.


it's not that you all have to look the same, it's earning the same as everyone else, woman earning as much as man, old men as much as newbies

#70
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I read The Communist Manifesto and what Marx dreamt of wasn't everyone having the exact same (which is the Stalinian conception of communism), but more of everyone getting the exact earning they deserve depending on how hard they work.


Or the government's perception on what everyone deserves.... also, whose paying this ere this money-dealing government?

it's not that you all have to look the same, it's earning the same as everyone else, woman earning as much as man, old men as much as newbies


Doctors as much as bin men?

#71
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And give the government total control? No thanks.

Government doesn't have total control, it is basically just in charge to check that everything works fine.

#72
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Government doesn't have total control, it is basically just in charge to check that everything works fine.


In practice isn't that exactly the same thing?

#73
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Doctors as much as bin men?


again: depends, bin men do the nasty job, and should earn more for doing it, otherwise no one does, and not all doctors are surgical ones.. there of course should be layers of salary for types of work, but every farmer should earn as much for his 40 hours of work per week

And give the government total control? No thanks.


there shoud be SOMEONE to protect, make laws, make roads, provide help right?

#74
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again: depends, bin men do the nasty job, and should earn more for doing it, otherwise no one does, and not all doctors are surgical ones.. there of course should be layers of salary for types of work, but every farmer should earn as much for his 40 hours of work per week


But surely it depends on what he's producing? If he's not producing the same amount as the next farmer working 40 hours of work a week, then surely he shouldn't get paid as much? How on earth would you administrate that?

#75
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Or the government's perception on what everyone deserves.... also, whose paying this ere this money-dealing government?

I don't think I get what you're asking. I mean, like, literally. Sorry for my italianness.

In practice isn't that exactly the same thing?

I don't think so, no. Checking that everything works fine is what every government should do, not just a communist government, isn't it?
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#76
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But surely it depends on what he's producing? If he's not producing the same amount as the next farmer working 40 hours of work a week, then surely he shouldn't get paid as much? How on earth would you administrate that?


welcome the government control people who control if you work hard enough.. (to prevent them from being a totalitarianism, there should be elections every 2 year for the non-controlling parties, and every 4 years for the parties in general (otherwise they wouldnt have time to imply new rules)

#77
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I don't think I get what you're asking. I mean, like, literally. Sorry for my italianness.


I don't think so, no. Checking that everything works fine is what every government should do, not just a communist government, isn't it?


But since a government is against communist ideals isn't this conversation hypothetical anyway?

#78
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But since a government is against communist ideals isn't this conversation hypothetical anyway?


a liberal government would, therefor we all have to vote for the communist party..

#79
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a liberal government would, therefor we all have to vote for the communist party..


But isn't having someone in charge against communist ideals, hence dispelling with the idea of government entirely?

#80
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And give the government total control? No thanks.

This is exactly the problem with communism. It takes away your freedom. Even though it's not because they have all the money and act like dictators.

#81
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But since a government is against communist ideals isn't this conversation hypothetical anyway?

Are you on drugs? :P Just kidding. Anyways, what are you talking about? A government is fundamental in a communist society, otherwise there wouldn't be someone making sure no one's preventing the system from working.

Aaaanyways, I'm not trying to defend communisms at all costs, it DOES have its cons, or else I think sooner or later every country would've adopted it as their economic system.
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#82
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Are you on drugs? http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... Just kidding. Anyways, what are you talking about? A government is fundamental in a communist society, otherwise there wouldn't be someone making sure no one's preventing the system from working.

Aaaanyways, I'm not trying to defend communisms at all costs, it DOES have its cons, or else I think sooner or later every country would've adopted it as their economic system.


But communism is about everyone being equal, sharing equal power within their community etc... so a government who dispenses power/money etc destroys this ideal completely hence it not being communism anymore.

#83
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But communism is about everyone being equal, sharing equal power within their community etc... so a government who dispenses power/money etc destroys this ideal completely hence it not being communism anymore.

That's why everyone has the chance to be part of the government and according to Marx (if my memory serves) people at the government should change all the time, in order to prevent people from gaining too much power.

#84
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But surely it depends on what he's producing? If he's not producing the same amount as the next farmer working 40 hours of work a week, then surely he shouldn't get paid as much? How on earth would you administrate that?

The idea of communism is that everybody work as hard as they can. Then it doesn't matter if he doesn't produce as much as the other farmer. Communists believe that nobody is lazy and they do what they can. That's why he should get paid just as much as the other farmer.

#85
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But communism is about everyone being equal, sharing equal power within their community etc... so a government who dispenses power/money etc destroys this ideal completely hence it not being communism anymore.


i totally agree with Comrade Brigster. the government is there to control, the parliament people get paid equally too, they don't dispense power, only money
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#86
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i totally agree with Comrade Brigster. the government is there to control, the parliament people get paid equally too, they don't dispense power, only money

Exactly. Someone needs to dispense money anyways.

#87
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That's why everyone has the chance to be part of the government and according to Marx (if my memory serves) people at the government should change all the time, in order to prevent people from gaining too much power.


Well we've seen how well that works. If there is only one party then people don't have the freedom to express their own ideas. Everyone is equal, but they have to be equal in the ideals of those in charge. Those who have power.

The idea of communism is that everybody work as hard as they can. Then it doesn't matter if he doesn't produce as much as the other farmer. Communists believe that nobody is lazy and they do what they can. That's why he should get paid just as much as the other farmer.


Well that's a fallacy in itself.

i totally agree with Comrade Brigster. the government is there to control, the parliament people get paid equally too, they don't dispense power, only money


and hence power. Where do you think power comes from? The one with the money is the one who has the inordinate power over those that don't.

#88
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But communism is about everyone being equal, sharing equal power within their community etc... so a government who dispenses power/money etc destroys this ideal completely hence it not being communism anymore.

The goverment is not keeping all the money for themselves. It makes sure everyone gets what they need.

i totally agree with Comrade Brigster. the government is there to control, the parliament people get paid equally too, they don't dispense power, only money

This.

#89
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The goverment is not keeping all the money for themselves. It makes sure everyone gets what they need.


Ha! What wonderful government is this?

#90
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and hence power. Where do you think power comes from? The one with the money is the one who has the inordinate power over those that don't.


"power" doesn't 'come' from somewhere, because of foreign policies, market machines, and elections, you prevent someoene from becoming fascist/too mighty
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