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Communism: Yay or Nay?

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232 replies to this topic

#31
stylesmanifest

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communism done the right way, is the good way. :thumbsup:
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#32
Dirntbag

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Communism-nay

It is such an amazing idea for a new governemnt system, foolishly thought up because there was so much acceptance and change in the world. It would be the ultimate, surpassing democracy and monarchy, but yea it has failed.

why you ask?

because governement systems and human nature must always be corrupt. Its just in our genes to always want more than someone else. No matter how many racism movemnets there are, womens rights or whatever else someone will not be sated. People arent content with being equal and thats why communism will never work.

Also on the topic of political systems I love this video:

#33
WhatserKinx

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I'm struggling to understand why everyone seems to think it's a good idea "in theory".


It's not so much about equality, I think it's a good theory because if you are paid depending on the number of people in your family no one lives in poverty because you have the money you need to live. But in practise it doesn't work because no one would strive to get an amazing, lifesaving job if they get paid loads for having a big family.
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#34
Reagan

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It's not so much about equality, I think it's a good theory because if you are paid depending on the number of people in your family no one lives in poverty because you have the money you need to live. But in practise it doesn't work because no one would strive to get an amazing, lifesaving job if they get paid loads for having a big family.

Exactly. No- everyone really is not equal, like the Animal Farm quote. I agree with what Whatserjinx said.

BUT- When Communisim is put into practice it's just...no.

#35
Vesper

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It's not so much about equality, I think it's a good theory because if you are paid depending on the number of people in your family no one lives in poverty because you have the money you need to live. But in practise it doesn't work because no one would strive to get an amazing, lifesaving job if they get paid loads for having a big family.


Citation needed. Where does it say that "you are paid depending on the number of people in your family"? I agree with the latter part of that paragraph.

communism done the right way, is the good way. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


Is there a right way? How would it work?

#36
Reagan

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communism done the right way, is the good way. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

Yes yes, please elaborate on the "right way."

PS- In order to fully contribute to this debate, where can I find this book that Marx wrote? Is it online?

Edited by Reagan, 09 April 2012 - 12:13 PM.


#37
stylesmanifest

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Citation needed. Where does it say that "you are paid depending on the number of people in your family"? I agree with the latter part of that paragraph.



Is there a right way? How would it work?


it was sarcasm ahah. the idea of communism is good i believe. but realistically, you'd just have a bunch of lazy people doing nothing while some people work their asses off and have the same outcome as everyone else. their wouldn't be much passion or drive that's for sure.

#38
Vesper

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Yes yes, please elaborate on the "right way."

PS- In order to fully contribute to this debate, where can I find this book that Marx wrote? Is it online?


It's not a book. It's a manifesto about 30 pages long (maximum) and can be found pretty much everywhere. I've got a copy beside me...

http://www.marxists....nist-manifesto/

#39
Reagan

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it was sarcasm ahah. the idea of communism is good i believe. but realistically, you'd just have a bunch of lazy people doing nothing while some people work their asses off and have the same outcome as everyone else. their wouldn't be much passion or drive that's for sure.



This is happening in America with health care today.

People used to work their asses off to afford health care, now lazy bums who do nothing get health care anyway.
Makes me sick.

#40
WhatserKinx

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Citation needed. Where does it say that "you are paid depending on the number of people in your family"? I agree with the latter part of that paragraph.


my history teacher, true communism works the way I described. or at least that's what we've been taught...

#41
americanidiot812

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I'm struggling to understand why everyone seems to think it's a good idea "in theory".


To my understanding, "in theory" everybody is willing to be completely equal with everyone. But that will never happen because people tend to be ambitious by nature and there will always be the power-hungry. Also, when there is no incentive to try (i.e. working harder will not get you paid more) it is very easy to be lazy. After all, if you were to be equal with everybody else no matter what, wouldn't it be rather easy to slack?
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#42
Reagan

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Okay here's a good example of why it's a great idea in theory:
Let's take Health Care in America.

Well, one bright and sunny afternoon Barack Obama decides to propose a new health care bill stating that everyone in America will get health care. (There's a LOT more to it, just look it up)
Everyone is happy, healthcare for everybody! Yay!

But when the Obamacare is put into practice, some people are pretty pissed because they've been working their butts off for it, and people who just sit around and do nothing get it now.

It seems selfish when I say it like that, but the Obamacare thing was also a pretty bad idea because that means doctors are busier, you actually have a harder time getting an appointment now, and that means less quality service.

Of course, communism has nothing to do with doctors and service, but that was just an example and I hope you can get what I'm trying to say.

#43
Hermione

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*
POPULAR

I like a lot of the things I've heard about the idea but I don't really know enough about it. I want to learn more about it.

This is happening in America with health care today.

People used to work their asses off to afford health care, now lazy bums who do nothing get health care anyway.
Makes me sick.

Does it make you sick that everyone gets free schools, roads, police and fire services too? If not, why is healthcare any different? They're all essential services that everyone needs so what's the problem with them all being paid for by taxes?
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#44
Reagan

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Does it make you sick that everyone gets free schools, roads, police and fire services too? If not, why is healthcare any different? They're all essential services that everyone needs so what's the problem with them all being paid for by taxes?


Hmm...You raised some thought provoking questions.
I'll think on my response. I have to go to a track meet.
And it was just an example. Maybe we should have a health care debate haha.

#45
Vesper

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To my understanding, "in theory" everybody is willing to be completely equal with everyone. But that will never happen because people tend to be ambitious by nature and there will always be the power-hungry. Also, when there is no incentive to try (i.e. working harder will not get you paid more) it is very easy to be lazy. After all, if you were to be equal with everybody else no matter what, wouldn't it be rather easy to slack?


I'm not willing to be completely equal with everyone.

#devil'sadvocate.

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#46
chewychorizo

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It sounds good because, in theory, it prevents inequality, which everyone strives for anyway in our own capitalist society. Everybody tries to emphasize equality, but when a theory comes along that supports this they all claim it ''doesn't sound good on paper''. It does. Just in practice it's not that successful, though some may beg to differ.

#47
Vesper

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It sounds good because, in theory, it prevents inequality, which everyone strives for anyway in our own capitalist society. Everybody tries to emphasize equality, but when a theory comes along that supports this they all claim it ''doesn't sound good on paper''. It does. Just in practice it's not that successful, though some may beg to differ.


I don't agree that everyone strives for equality. Surely everyone strives to better themselves so as to make life more comfortable for them and those closest to them? I think if everyone was equal then life would be extremely boring.

I also don't really see how anyone could argue it's good in practice either. *waits 'til John gets here*

#48
chewychorizo

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What? Everyone is going on about equality, in terms of race, sex, gender, etc. What you're referring to is probably how it is in reality, but everyone wants to look all ''nicey nice'' on the forefront. And maybe you don't, but others do. That's why it's a debate, with differing opinions. Some may argue it's working for China and whatnot. I personally do not, but I don't have enough beef with communism to start claiming things I don't know.

#49
Brigister

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When I was a bit younger I used to be the commie kid, but now I sort of changed my mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm still left winged, but here's what I think: communism is a good ideal, but a bit too utopian, in today's society is definitely not achievable. So I'm more for the yay and I can't stand people bashing communism because of communist dictatorial regimes: those are dictatorships, and dictators would basically exploit any ideal that is popular at the moment to take the power. Communist ideal itself is kinda good, IMO.

#50
Maria Gloria

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My wholly unintelligent opinion is that there's certainly pros to it, but like a lot of others have said, it's never going to work. I partly think it's a great idea. Maybe it's just that it isn't done right. But there's always going to be someone who messes it up and that's only going to lead to eventual despair, economical problems and loss of lives. People are equal but in today's world, not happy. To be honest I don't really know enough about it to say anything that great, but what I know of examples in history really aren't good. I suppose that's because there's been that one person messing it up. Still, there's no way to prevent that so in the end no, in practice I don't think it's a good idea. And if it is, it isn't the right way of going about it.

I should learn more about it, it's quite an interesting debate really.

#51
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I was always attracted by the idea of communism but it's a kind of idea that only works when written or in our heads, not in the society. From what I've heard from people that lived in the communist Russia, it was not a nice experience. Anything extreme is not good (in my humble opinion).

When I was a bit younger I used to be the commie kid, but now I sort of changed my mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm still left winged, but here's what I think: communism is a good ideal, but a bit too utopian, in today's society is definitely not achievable. So I'm more for the yay and I can't stand people bashing communism because of communist dictatorial regimes: those are dictatorships, and dictators would basically exploit any ideal that is popular at the moment to take the power. Communist ideal itself is kinda good, IMO.


I'm exactly like that :lol: I used to be down with communists till I actually found out how communist people really acted in my country, but I still like it as in idea.

#52
Brigister

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I'm exactly like that http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... I used to be down with communists till I actually found out how communist people really acted in my country, but I still like it as in idea.

I don't know how communist people act in your country, but mainly what slowed me down about it is that I want a political independence for my own ideals, I don't like them to have a label because it's too restrictive, it doesn't leave any space for changes and improvements. :happy:

#53
Sofouska

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I don't know how communist people act in your country, but mainly what slowed me down about it is that I want a political independence for my own ideals, I don't like them to ahve a label because it's too restrictive, it doesn't leave any space for changes and improvements. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


*claps*
YES, exactly. God, that's the way everyone should think, before completely sticking to an idea or a political party, this way of thinking would save us from a lot of trouble!
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#54
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What? Everyone is going on about equality, in terms of race, sex, gender, etc. What you're referring to is probably how it is in reality, but everyone wants to look all ''nicey nice'' on the forefront. And maybe you don't, but others do. That's why it's a debate, with differing opinions. Some may argue it's working for China and whatnot. I personally do not, but I don't have enough beef with communism to start claiming things I don't know.


What I meant is that we all should have equality in terms of rights, but if you want to split hairs, I am never going to strive for the equality of everybody because we are all different. In this respect I can be a driving instructor, but someone who is blind cannot be. I am not going to strive for their right to be so because that's just not going to happen. Equality in these terms should be thought about but when the realities of physical, intellectual and other differences come into play, it is clearly not entirely achievable. Equality should be fought for when discrimination is occurring between two parties who are equally able.

#55
chewychorizo

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Yes, I agree with that.

#56
Brigister

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*claps*
YES, exactly. God, that's the way everyone should think, before completely sticking to an idea or a political party, this way of thinking would save us from a lot of trouble!

I like the way you think, mate ;)

#57
Elena

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imo in theory it looks good, but almost every form of government is good in theory, but practically it doesn't even give a perfect form of government...from all i know about soviet russia and also from the former east germany it's NOT good, so a nay from me...

#58
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I'm not willing to be completely equal with everyone.

#devil'sadvocate.


which is why communism doesn't work :lol:
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#59
captain peroxide

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China's not a communist country, by the way, even if they say they are. Their economy is much closer to capitalism than they'd ever admit. The only reason people think they're communist is because of their totalitarian government, which is a common feature of many communist regimes, but isn't inherently communist itself.

This is happening in America with health care today.

People used to work their asses off to afford health care, now lazy bums who do nothing get health care anyway.
Makes me sick.


Oh dear.
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#60
Brigister

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which is why communism doesn't work http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

Being equal to everyone doesn't mean giving the same reward to those that don't do anything good as to those who work their ass off. It means giving everyone the same opportunities, not letting anyone get more than they deserve (which is something that happens way too often because of capitalism).



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