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Polygamy

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#1
Fuzz

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I came in to work today and my boss told me that allowing gay marriage was a slippery-slope to allowing polygamy. He showed me some article from some right-wing place, but I can't find it now.

Now I'm curious what you guys think about polygamy? If 3 or 4 adults agree to having a relationship should they be allowed legally to marry? Do you think the argument is the same for allowing gay marriage as it is to allowing polygamy?

Are there negatives or positives to polygamy that should make it one way or the other?

#2
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Yes.

The fuck I care if some woman wants four husband, or if a man wants four wives. If you like it, hooray; if you don't, leave.
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#3
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Wow Andres, what a topic...

I believe that the idea of marriage is a monogamous relationship. Two people devoted to one another, regardless of gender. Multiple partners in a marriage, especially in our current society of 'equal gender rights', would create more problems and discord. Besides, polygamy totally goes against all my personal 'romantic' thoughts and ideas...

Legally, this one is a difficult call, and I can understand how someone, who believes that marriage should be man and woman only, would come up with the idea that it's a slippery slope to other things, such as polygamy. People fighting for gay rights are using 'equal protection of the law'. I guess under that argument polygamy would be included as a right to choose your partner(s)...? But polygamy would bring up so many other issues with custody and inheritance, etc... Ultimately, how do you define a social practice in legal terms?
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#4
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I came in to work today and my boss told me that allows gay marriage was a slippery-slope to allowing polygamy. He showed me some article from some right-wing place, but I can't find it now.

Now I'm curious what you guys think about polygamy? If 3 or 4 adults agree to having a relationship should they be allowed legally to marry? Do you think the argument is the same for allowing gay marriage as it is to allowing polygamy?

Are there negatives or positives to polygamy that should make it one way or the other?


The word "polygamy" has way too many negative connotations and immediately brings to mind the polygamist compounds found in Bountiful B.C. and Utah that are associated with a fundamentalist sect of the Church of the Latter-Day Saints. Consenting and egalitarian plural relationships are called polyamorous or ethical non-monogamous relationships, and there are many people who form happy and equal plural relationships. I think polyamorous people should have the right to marry, and there are ways of regulating these forms of relationships under the law in-so-that minors and women are not taken advantage of.

#5
Trotsky

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*
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I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I genuinely believe that consenting adults should be able to do absolutely anything and enter into any recognized partnership they want.

But, in many cases, polygamy is a system of sexual slavery. Conducted under religious pretenses, it almost always oppresses women and subjugates them to a husband who treats them like property. I don't think the state should sanction dehumanizing situations.

Perhaps the most ideal solution would be to legally recognize polyamorous partnerships but with strict laws regarding equal shares of property and wealth, so one spouse was not the "head" of the union like the husband is in many types of polygamous relationships.
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#6
BringMoreKnives

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I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I genuinely believe that consenting adults should be able to do absolutely anything and enter into any recognized partnership they want.

But, in many cases, polygamy is a system of sexual slavery. Conducted under religious pretenses, it almost always oppresses women and subjugates them to a husband who treats them like property. I don't think the state should sanction dehumanizing situations.

Perhaps the most ideal solution would be to legally recognize polyamorous partnerships but with strict laws regarding equal shares of property and wealth, so one spouse was not the "head" of the union like the husband is in many types of polygamous relationships.


This. I pretty much feel the same way.

#7
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It's immoral against most religions as of today, but as long as you're not a member and a hypocrite, open relationships are the solutions for those who can't fit with just one person.
I wouldn't go so far as to make it legalizing it, at least not now in 2012, the reactions of those opposed to it could /will lead to violence and shitty debates on TV when more world revolving matters could be discussed.

Maybe in 200 years, it's normal for 4 bi people to be together ._. To balance out the sexes x)
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#8
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Anyone watch Sister Wives on TLC?

You get to see how a polygimist marriage works.
It doesn't look enjoyable.

There are 4 wives each with on average 2 kids a piece.
They each live in their own house a few blocks within each other.

The husband does not have his own house. Instead he travels every couple nights to each of his wives' homes to "visit with them"



I'm sorry but that is a terrible way to live.

I get that it's a "bonding" thing between the sister wives, but trying to share one man intimately? I wouldn't be able to stand it.

#9
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I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I genuinely believe that consenting adults should be able to do absolutely anything and enter into any recognized partnership they want.

But, in many cases, polygamy is a system of sexual slavery. Conducted under religious pretenses, it almost always oppresses women and subjugates them to a husband who treats them like property. I don't think the state should sanction dehumanizing situations.

Perhaps the most ideal solution would be to legally recognize polyamorous partnerships but with strict laws regarding equal shares of property and wealth, so one spouse was not the "head" of the union like the husband is in many types of polygamous relationships.


That's exactly how I feel. I can't figure out where I stand on the issue because it's a pretty split for me. I see the same exact sides you do and I can't quite figure out which one means more to me. I do think if it was legal it would put a lot of women into that subjugation of a husband. At the same time I was reading an article that suggested we should give women more credit in their ability to choose a spouse and not treat them differently that we do men. Women could leave any relationship they wanted, theoretically anyway. I'm not sure if that's true in reality.

#10
Eva

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First of all, I'm not sure how anyone ever sees how gay marriage and polygamy are related. I'm gay, and not a polygamous. However, I think that if people WANT to be in a polygamous relationship, why should anyone stop it? If they don't want a polygamous relationship, then they shouldn't get one. Same with gay marriage. If you don't want one, don't get one. I don't think it's anyone's place to tell people that they shouldn't be allowed to marry who they want, which includes polygamy.
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#11
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I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I genuinely believe that consenting adults should be able to do absolutely anything and enter into any recognized partnership they want.

But, in many cases, polygamy is a system of sexual slavery. Conducted under religious pretenses, it almost always oppresses women and subjugates them to a husband who treats them like property. I don't think the state should sanction dehumanizing situations.

Perhaps the most ideal solution would be to legally recognize polyamorous partnerships but with strict laws regarding equal shares of property and wealth, so one spouse was not the "head" of the union like the husband is in many types of polygamous relationships.


Once again, you've said exactly what I was thinking.

#12
pasalaska

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because we need musical accompaniment to any debate.
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#13
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I don't really know how to feel about this. On the one hand, adults should be allowed to do whatever they want regarding relationships and marriage. But on the other, I've always seen marriage as a "bonding of two people". I don't really know how to explain what I'm trying to say, but to me, that just doesn't seem to me what marriage actually is. Other than that, John pretty much summed up my feelings.

#14
BJA TC MD

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This is a hard one. I think if people love each other, they should get married. But polygamy, I'm not so sure. I've always seen a marriage to be about two people who love each agreeing to spend the rest of their lives with each other, but only two. It's a very different idea and I've never really thought about this one. Its hard to say

#15
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Sure, if people want to be in a polyamorous relationship, let them. But I can't for the life of me see why anyone would want that. Like spark in the night said (I can't remember her name!) said, sharing a man with 3,4, however many other women and vice versa? No thanks.

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#16
Brigister

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Yes.

The fuck I care if some woman wants four husband, or if a man wants four wives. If you like it, hooray; if you don't, leave.

Polygamy means strictly that a MAN can have several wives. Polyandry is for women having several husbands.

Anyways, people should have the right to have a bond of marriage with more than one person, if their spouses are all consentient. But I don't really see any connection with gay marriage, that I firmly support btw.
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#17
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It's not something I would ever want for myself, and I can't figure out why anyone else would want it either, but hey, it's their life. Far be it from me to tell them what to do with their personal life, as long as it was consensual among the group. It's when people are forced into it that it's bad.

Oh, and I can't see the connection between this and gay marriage, either. Gay marriage is two people who love each other getting married, not one person getting married to multiple people...

#18
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Polygamy means strictly that a MAN can have several wives. Polyandry is for women having several husbands.

Anyways, people should have the right to have a bond of marriage with more than one person, if their spouses are all consentient. But I don't really see any connection with gay marriage, that I firmly support btw.


actually polygamy is just having multiple spouses. Polygyny is where it's limited to a man having several wives.

#19
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I can see the connection this guy's making, even if it's stupid. Marriage has traditionally been a man and a woman who love each other joining in a union. We're attempting to redefine that somewhat so that it's two people who love each other, with gender not a component. I can see why this guy thinks "well, if they can change the gender, why not change the number?" It's separate from fucking morons like Rick Santorum who go further and compare it to marrying close relatives (which is already explicitly illegal in most of the country) or marrying animals (because a dog can consent, and sign a marriage license, ok). I can actually see where this guy is coming from, even if I don't agree with it.

Having said that, I wouldn't be okay with it. Maybe this is the next generation's debate, and I'll be the old white guy going "why can't you and your four spouses just get a civil union and be happy with it?" (Not likely, but you get what I mean). I don't know, I feel like marriage is supposed to be a monogamous relationship, but I can also see why people would argue (perfectly legitimately) that if you can change the gender, why not the number? I just wouldn't be okay with it, personally. I don't really care what anyone else does though, so if this is ever an issue that comes up, sure, why not.

#20
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Fuck, people should be allowed to do what they want relationship-wise. As long as no individual or group of people are at a social, financial or legal disadvantage due to the arrangement, go for it.

Polygamy comes as naturally to humans as monogamy, it just so happens we as a species - mostly due to religious ideals - have decided it is in some way wrong.

#21
Trotsky

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Fuck, people should be allowed to do what they want relationship-wise. As long as no individual or group of people are at a social, financial or legal disadvantage due to the arrangement, go for it.

Polygamy comes as naturally to humans as monogamy, it just so happens we as a species - mostly due to religious ideals - have decided it is in some way wrong.


I would guess that socially engineered monogamy probably came about more from the idea of 'property' or 'ownership' than from religion, the idea that people needed to secure all their assets in a certain circle.

#22
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I would guess that socially engineered monogamy probably came about more from the idea of 'property' or 'ownership' than from religion, the idea that people needed to secure all their assets in a certain circle.

Probably. The concept is so old its probably hard to figure it out completely. If it was entirely ownership though, I don't see why only one partner would be considered the most appropriate. The more you have, the wealthier you are normally. Lots of factors have contributed to the current image of monogamy and polygamy over the centuries. Its a shame.

#23
Brigister

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actually polygamy is just having multiple spouses. Polygyny is where it's limited to a man having several wives.

I study ancient greek at school and I can assure you that "gamé" means strictly wife. Don't know though, it might have changed its meaning throughout the years.
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#24
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I study ancient greek at school and I can assure you that "gamé" means strictly wife. Don't know though, it might have changed its meaning throughout the years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy

Polygamy (from πολύς γάμος polys gamos, translated literally in Late Greek as "often married")



#25
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Eh people can do whatever the fuck they want with their lives I guess. But I for once strongly support monogamous relationships so I wouldn't go as far as legislating polygamy. After all, it's not like you have to marry someone to sleep/live/whatever with them. Anyways in my opinion, if you want to have multiple partners, you just haven't met the right person yet. What can I say - I'm a hopeless romantic, bear with me.

#26
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I'm not a fan of marriage in general, but I don't see polyamorous partnerships/marriages as inherently any more exploitative than monogamous ones.
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#27
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Hmm. About half of the Girl Scouts in my troop have daddies who have multiple baby mamas. They spread their seed like there's no tomorrow. Most of the time, they forget about the mamas and the children before the kids are even born - usually around the time the mom starts getting "fat" (read: showing her pregnancy). So, yeah, if that's not illegal . . . I don't know how anyone can say a polygamous marriage would be.
I think abuse (which is what polygamous marriage are sometimes a disguise for) should be illegal. However, if people want to marry multiple times, fine by me.
I'd also like to point out that sometimes traditional marriage is disguise for abuse as well . . . think about how many abusive, asshole rapist marry and torture their spouses. There's a huge prejudice against people who say they were raped by their spouses.
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#28
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But I for once strongly support monogamous relationships so I wouldn't go as far as legislating polygamy.

I's not an either/or thing. Liking cake doesn't mean you have to hate cookies.

#29
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I's not an either/or thing. Liking cake doesn't mean you have to hate cookies.

Uhm, yes it is? To me, supporting polygamous relationships means you are okay with your spouse having multiple partners. Well, I'm certainly not.

#30
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Uhm, yes it is? To me, supporting polygamous relationships means you are okay with your spouse having multiple partners. Well, I'm certainly not.


But you could still be in a monogamous relationship while supporting the fact that other people should be able to have polygamous relationships if they want to. It doesn't mean that you have to be involved in a polygamous relationship yourself.


For me, I could never be with more than one person at once. But if that's what other people like and they can make it work, then more power to them.



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