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Climate Change

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#31
CristhyneS

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I just found this thread.

When I'm on my laptop I'll link you a couple documentaries that I find very interesting on this matter.

Anyways, I used to be a very opinionated and, unfrotunatelly, uneducated, or rather missinformed "Global Warming Activist", now I'm more towards the "Global Warming Denier" line, and the change begun with a lucky accident. I happened to hear a professor speak of the other theory and I was like, "hey, you know what... the science behind what he's saying actually makes sense. And as the huge nerd, fan of science that I am, I got home and lookedup both theories, read papers and watched documentaries from both side, and in the end, I find the science behind the "denying" holds way better than Al Gore's.

So my view on this now: Yes, global warming is happening, as in, yes the temperature of the planet, in general terms, is rising. But are we, human the cause of it? No. I think our effect on this is actually pretty insignificant, the lead here is that of mother nature itself.

Does this mean I hate recycling, or that I'm agaisnt the cars that use an energy source other than oil, or that I hate polar bears and baby penguins? No. Hey, reclying is very cool, alternative energy sources are a real money saver for most of you who live in countries where the oil is pretty damn expensive, we should car pool and/or use public transportatiuon system because seriously the heavy traffic sucks, and I love and care for polar bears and penguins as much as the next guy. But when people learn my views on global warming and its causes, they tend to believe that it means I'm evil and hate the planet and nature and do not care for any other species than the human one.


All I know is every time I hear "How can there be global warming when this is the coldest winter we've had in 50 years?" I want to punch a baby.



That kind of statements also make me want to punch babies (not the baby penguins of course though :lol: ), but you must admit, that you also get it a lot from the "global warming activists", "How cna people say there's no global warming if this is the hottest winter/summer we've had in the last 50 years?!" and that also makes me want to punch babies.

#32
Trotsky

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The thing is though, the whole reason that the Earth is the way it is all goes back to biological life - if not for photosynthesis, the atmosphere would never have cooled, and there never would have been enough oxygen for advance life to develop. At one point in time the most primitive and simple microbes altered every single feature of this planet simply by existing, why is it hard to think humans couldn't do the same?

It's more than just carbon emissions as well, it's the fact that we are destroying biodiversity, which has a devastating ripple effect on everything. There was an experiment done, in which two different patches of land were walled off and both exposed to the same weather conditions - one had a high amount of biodiversity and one had a low amount, and the one with the low amount died off while the one with the high amount was nearly unaffected and few species died off.

I would just like to know what evidence in particular brought you to the conclusion that anthropocentric global warming isn't real? The only thing I ever see deniers point to is cyclical climate change, and no one denies there are natural changes in the climate, but the fact is right now we are at a time where we should be in a natural cooling cycle, because the Earth's axial tilt is increasing and volcanic activity is relatively low these days, but we are still warming against all natural reasons we would be.

Posted Image

And the other fact is, even if humans weren't causing the Earth to warm, which we are, we are still devastating it in many other ways. Our farming and fishing and energy are all unsustainable and we're the ones who are going to have to pay the price for that.

#33
CristhyneS

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And the other fact is, even if humans weren't causing the Earth to warm, which we are, we are still devastating it in many other ways. Our farming and fishing and energy are all unsustainable and we're the ones who are going to have to pay the price for that.


This I agree with.

I'm sorry, last night when I posted I was tacking a break from studying in order to try and not fall asleep, so with how tired I was (and still am) I worded poorly what I believe, so I'll rephrase here:

I do not think that carbon dioxide produced by humans (as in industries, cars, etc) is the cause of global warming. It might contribute, but insignificantly. While the global warming activists point to this as the main reason for global warming.

However I have a big and scary math exam to take tomorrow and I must go finish studying. So I'll come back tomorrow to explain why I support this theory.

#34
CristhyneS

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Finally I have time to reply properly to your post.

Well I completelly agree with the fact that humans are having a bad impact in biodiversity, whether it is due to whether it is because of excessive fishing, deforestation, oil spills, or even due to radiation contamination (which, let me point out, we owe to a "green" energy source that does not produce carbon dioxide, so even alternative energy sources have their downside). As I said, I love polar bears, penguins and tress just as much as the next guy. However this a climate change thread, not a fauna and flora thread, and all that I intended to point out is that I do not think the climate change is due to humans' emission of carbon dioxide.

Now, why do I believe this?

Well first off the graphs that Al Gore shows when he talks about the relationship between increase in carbon dioxide and increase in temperature are very interesting, and seemingly very irrefutable... however they're not really merged together, which is how you usually present a graph when you're trying to compate two things, and then he goes on and says that the realtion between temperature and the carbon dioxide rises is complicated but that the bottom line is that when temperature is higher so is carbon dioxide. And this is truth. But if you look carefully at the graphs, and even more importantly, if you do a merged graph, you'll see that the relationship is the other way around than how he describes it. Actually, the temperature rises first, and some hundred years later the carbon dioxide follows up. The lag between the rise of temperature and the rise of carbon dioxide was of around 800 years, if I recall correctly.

Also, most of the increase in temperature in the 20th century (which has been of around 0.5°C) happened before 1940, when the human caused carbon dioxide emissions were comparatively low to how they are now, then the temperatures went down until the 70's, even though during that period carbon dioxide emissions went up during the industrial production boom of the post-WWII.

However, the relation between sunspots and temperature describes much, much better the rises in temperature. And when the temperature goes up, it warms the oceans and the oceans emit carbon dioxide... but of course warming up an ocean takes a few hundred of years, thus explaining why the carbon dioxides goes up when the temperature goes up but only some hundred years afterwards.

And also, the most important green house gas is water vapor. The contribution, so to speak, of carbon dioxide to green house gases is less than 30%, and considering humans produce only around 3% of the carbon dioxide expelled into the atmosphere. So we produce around 1% of the total of green house gases, and yet we're the main responsibles of global warming because of that? I do not think so.

Anyways, it's been a while since I watched this documentary but I'm pretty sure it must explain in greater details the facts that I just pointed out, and then some. You should check it out:





On a side note, I always bring up my views on the causes of global warming when I see the chance. Not because I intend to "convert" anyone into being a "denier" of global warming, or to be more accurate, a denier of the anthropocentric global warming theory. I do it because I think it is a subject into which we are led to blindly believe that theory without even looking in detail to the science supporting this theory or the alternative theories, and I think that since this is a matter of science and not religion, people should keep an open mind and actually demand proof of one thing or the other before buying into any theory, but this is not usually done with global warming. In fact most people nearly point at you and scream "HERESY!" if you tell them you don't think global warming is caused by humans, and they simply refuse to reason or debate with you about whether this is possible or not. and at least in my country you simply don't know there are other theories, as I said, I was on the "global warming activist" side of things for years, the same amount of years that it took me to come across the first person who denied the global warming theory with some well informed facts.

So I do not expect for anyone here, or anywhere, going "oh you know, I thin kyou're right and that we might not be the cause of global warming!" (although that would be incredibly exciting for me, I can't deny it), but I just expect for people to open their minds a bit for discussion on this subject.



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