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Cigarettes and Valentines

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#361
Tman684

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Oh it's not been a while since I've listened to the demos

Just re listened to it its a studio demo which still means it was recorded yes it may not have been slated for Dookie but it was recorded in a studio form and then held back for a few years

It's a demo, from a demo tape, but those tapes aren't actually from the studio while they were recording Dookie. If it was a studio tape it'd be much better quality.

 

After one of the Basket Case demos, there is the intro to 16, it must have been cut out or something.



#362
WhiteTim

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It's a demo, from a demo tape, but those tapes aren't actually from the studio while they were recording Dookie. If it was a studio tape it'd be much better quality.
 
After one of the Basket Case demos, there is the intro to 16, it must have been cut out or something.


So where was this recorded it sure as fuck werent recorded live nor does it sound home recorded the tape sound bad cause of the generation of the tape as whoever leaked it has had a tape of a tape of a tape version

This was a studio recording yes not at Fantasy Studios where Dookie itself was done but at a studio it could be the same studio Kerplunk was at the drum sound is clearly not from a 4 track cassette recorder

#363
Sensei21

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It's a demo, from a demo tape, but those tapes aren't actually from the studio while they were recording Dookie. If it was a studio tape it'd be much better quality.

 

After one of the Basket Case demos, there is the intro to 16, it must have been cut out or something.

It's not uncommon for a group to record a demo in a cheap studio, then re-record in a professional environment, hence the quality difference. Not every studio is going to give you perfect results, you get what you pay for.



So where was this recorded it sure as fuck werent recorded live nor does it sound home recorded the tape sound bad cause of the generation of the tape as whoever leaked it has had a tape of a tape of a tape version

This was a studio recording yes not at Fantasy Studios where Dookie itself was done but at a studio it could be the same studio Kerplunk was at the drum sound is clearly not from a 4 track cassette recorder

I've heard home recordings sound as good as that demo. How ever, that's from 1993 and I'm fairly certain that wasn't something people did, yes?



#364
Tman684

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So where was this recorded it sure as fuck werent recorded live nor does it sound home recorded the tape sound bad cause of the generation of the tape as whoever leaked it has had a tape of a tape of a tape version

This was a studio recording yes not at Fantasy Studios where Dookie itself was done but at a studio it could be the same studio Kerplunk was at the drum sound is clearly not from a 4 track cassette recorder

Exactly. It may have been recorded in a studio, but what I mean is these weren't recorded when they were recording Dookie. They were recorded before, at a different studio, and therefore not recorded with all the songs on Dookie. So we have no proof that Haushinka was recorded for Dookie, it was just recorded on a demo tape from a non-album recording session. Which, btw, do you think JAR was recorded with Dookie, or after Dookie?



#365
MrsBillieJoe95

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Drama Queen was written for 21CBD. There's this article from a magazine where they talked about each track individually (there's also video I think) and Drama Queen is there in place of Murder City. EJN is also called March of the Dogs.

 

Quite interesting! So much I've apparently missed out on :lol:

Would you (or anyone else) happen to know which article, or even the time frame it was from?

 

Finding it kind of annoying that the Trilogy has a bunch of discarded songs that weren't used for old albums. If they weren't good enough then, why are they good enough now?

 

I think it's more stuff they've revisited and reworked :P I'm sure a lot of the stuff wasn't necessarily "bad" or "not good enough", but more they weren't able to do what they wanted with them at the time :)

Quite frankly, I'm glad they're choosing to revisit a lot of this stuff! I'd absolutely LOVE to hear stuff they recorded but didn't actually release! Hopefully some day they'll do it  :wub:



#366
Doctor of Pepper

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You guys are also forgetting Haushinka was recorded before Dookie and didn't come out until Nimrod.

Does that mean it's a shitty reject track. Fuck no that song is one of the best songs. I wouldn't care if some songs were reworked b-sides or discarded songs once. What they are now is what's important.

Not to mention Letterbomb, which evolved from "Clusterbomb," a Warning outtake (don't know the right word); J.A.R., which is also from the Dookie demos; and Maria, which was a Warning b-side;.



#367
WhiteTim

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Exactly. It may have been recorded in a studio, but what I mean is these weren't recorded when they were recording Dookie. They were recorded before, at a different studio, and therefore not recorded with all the songs on Dookie. So we have no proof that Haushinka was recorded for Dookie, it was just recorded on a demo tape from a non-album recording session. Which, btw, do you think JAR was recorded with Dookie, or after Dookie?


I didn't mean to imply it was during the recording sessions at Fantasy Studios just that it was a studio recording during the demo sessions during the Dookie era sorry I should've been more clear

But there could be a version of it actually done at Fantasy do we have any info on songs recorded that didnt make it?


I've heard home recordings sound as good as that demo. How ever, that's from 1993 and I'm fairly certain that wasn't something people did, yes?


Well back in those days they had 4 track cassette recorders but the sound quality on them weren't exactly the best they were meant mainly just to put ideas down

Now home recorders you can record an album and have it sound like it was done at a real studio (if you know how to use the equipment)

#368
thatdude03

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Yes

How is 1 live song and 1 studio song half an album?

Cigerattes and Valentines has only 3.5 songs on it.   Haha.  



#369
Westside Highway

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Cigs and Valentines and Too Much Too Soon are official official.

 

Walk Away is runner-up official.

 

Drop Out is official but we've never heard it and there's no evidence to say it's Brutal Love at all. If Billie told us a song was once called "Suicide" what song would you think it was? Lyrics don't mean a lot relative to names.

actually it could be Uptight i gueess



#370
thatdude03

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Drop Out is official but we've never heard it and there's no evidence to say it's Brutal Love at all. If Billie told us a song was once called "Suicide" what song would you think it was? Lyrics don't mean a lot relative to names.

 

I would think "Suicide" was "LIght's out", or "Homecoming" or "uptight"......wow, there's a lot of suicide's in Green Day's music.   Haha. 



#371
Jon Benjamin

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Drop Out is official but we've never heard it and there's no evidence to say it's Brutal Love at all. If Billie told us a song was once called "Suicide" what song would you think it was? Lyrics don't mean a lot relative to names.
 
I would think "Suicide" was "LIght's out", or "Homecoming" or "uptight"......wow, there's a lot of suicide's in Green Day's music.   Haha. 

deadbeat holiday

#372
Marko Knezevik

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Maybe the guys were on acid and they forgot the songs x)



#373
99-revolutions

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Not nessicary a Neil Young album was stolen and got leaked back in the 80's the person responsible still has yet to be caught

All the 2Pac music no one knows who and that Nirvana song You Know Your Rights

So it's possible it could get leaked without ever being caught risky yes but a shot

But I don't believe it was stolen myself studios have gotten stricter in the last 15 years and since Mike has said they made back up on DAT tapes leads me believe they were recording on analog source either ADAT's or DA-88's which would be ALOT of tapes to take ADAT's are the same size as VHS tapes and one song alone can take up 3-4 tapes so 20 songs would not be easy to walk out if they were using Ocean Way Studio (where they did American Idiot) then they check everyone entering and exiting... i think they just didnt like the songs and rather say publicly "these songs were bad" they can just "they were stolen" if anyone is in Oakland check the police records (they are public records) if they were stolen the band and ESCP Warner (since they pay for the studio time) would've opened a police report on it...


See the thing is that the band have said that they don't know whether the tapes were stolen or misplaced or what. They said they didn't want to go through with C&V so they probably saw no point in filing a report

#374
Zack.

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See the thing is that the band have said that they don't know whether the tapes were stolen or misplaced or what. They said they didn't want to go through with C&V so they probably saw no point in filing a report

If they were stolen and they didn't want the tapes released, they definitely would have filed a report.

 

Not that they were actually stolen anyway, they obviously just didn't like them.



#375
WhiteTim

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See the thing is that the band have said that they don't know whether the tapes were stolen or misplaced or what. They said they didn't want to go through with C&V so they probably saw no point in filing a report


A label is going to file a police report they are not going to spend 50-100k on studio tine etc and NOT file a police report if tapes were stolen plus like I said Oceanway wont let ANYONE leave without checking peoples belongings...

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#376
Zack.

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A label is going to file a police report they are not going to spend 50-100k on studio time

Don't the bands themselves pay for it most of the time? AWOLNATION is the only band I've ever heard of that didn't and that's because they were already famous and were signed by Red Bull records, who doesn't exactly need their money to stay in business.

 

Come to think of it, do we know anything really about Green Day's contract?



#377
WhiteTim

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Don't the bands themselves pay for it most of the time? AWOLNATION is the only band I've ever heard of that didn't and that's because they were already famous and were signed by Red Bull records, who doesn't exactly need their money to stay in business.
 
Come to think of it, do we know anything really about Green Day's contract?


95% of the time the labels pay for studio times

The only artist on Warner I know of that pays for his own time was TI even then he got reimbursed

Of course now that Green Day owns Jingletown Studios i dunno how that works but Oceanway for a while was a private studio who only took clients that were booked by labels

#378
fromdecimateddreams

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So I was listening to music earlier and Shoplifter came on my shuffle right after the live version of Cigarettes and Valentines, and I thought... what if Shoplifter was about whoever stole C&V?

I dunno, maybe I'm just reading too far into it or something but it seems kinda plausible considering it's a B-side on American Idiot which we all know is the "replacement" of sorts for Cigarettes&Valentines. And the tone of the song suggests that the band isn't really fond of the "shoplifter" in this scenario so idk, it seems like it makes sense.

Thoughts?

Spoiler


#379
Kerplunk!!!

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I'm not sure, to me Shoplifter sounds like it was wrote around the time of warning. If C&V had of got it's release I reckon shoplifter was intended for it?



#380
The Disappearing Boy

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Except that C&V wasn't stolen ;)



#381
Sarcasm

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Except that C&V wasn't stolen ;)

someone stole the hard drive that the tracks was on. so that sucks. I'm gonna go ahead and merge this to the C&V topic now.

#382
CristhyneS

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someone stole the hard drive that the tracks was on. so that sucks. I'm gonna go ahead and merge this to the C&V topic now.

C&V so wasn't stolen. Even the article that wikipedia quotes on that  toys with the idea that it wasn't stolen: " Some argue that they were not stolen, but actually scrapped in lieu of a more political bent, to capitalize on the upcoming 2004 elections. After 12 millions albums sold, no one really wants to hear the originals anyway."

 

Either way, I doubt Shoplifter is about C&V being stolen, it sounds too... "cheerful" for a song about someone stealing their album, I'd guess Billie Joe would be pissed as fuck and write something more along the lines of Platypus. :lol:



#383
WhiteTim

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someone stole the hard drive that the tracks was on. so that sucks. I'm gonna go ahead and merge this to the C&V topic now.


Supposedly....

Seeing it was supposedly recorded at Oceanway theres no way it was stolen as they check everyone before they buzz you in or out

#384
Sarcasm

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C&V so wasn't stolen. Even the article that wikipedia quotes on that  toys with the idea that it wasn't stolen: " Some argue that they were not stolen, but actually scrapped in lieu of a more political bent, to capitalize on the upcoming 2004 elections. After 12 millions albums sold, no one really wants to hear the originals anyway."[/size]

 
Either way, I doubt Shoplifter is about C&V being stolen, it sounds too... "cheerful" for a song about someone stealing their album, I'd guess Billie Joe would be pissed as fuck and write something more along the lines of Platypus. :lol:
 
 

Supposedly....

Seeing it was supposedly recorded at Oceanway theres no way it was stolen as they check everyone before they buzz you in or out

I still believe some pissy sound engineer took the drive home in his underwear one fateful night.

#385
CristhyneS

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In many years from now, when most band members have died and there's no longer Green Day, there will still be some hardcore fans in a Green Day forum debating whether Cigarettes and Valentines was stolen or not. 

 

And I will probably be a part of it  :mellow:

 

I can see that happening so clearly in my mind. 



#386
WhiteTim

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I still believe some pissy sound engineer took the drive home in his underwear one fateful night.


Oceanway has cameras set up in every room no engineers have access to the security room they'd know who took it everyone from artists to employees gets searched before leaving...

Im not saying its impossible but it is hard as fuck to do

#387
Sarcasm

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Oceanway has cameras set up in every room no engineers have access to the security room they'd know who took it everyone from artists to employees gets searched before leaving...

Im not saying its impossible but it is hard as fuck to do

you're taking the mystery away by being logical you douche

#388
Awesompawsome

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The Heart Like A Handgrenade crew said in an interview that they witnessed the creation of multiple albums during the time that they filmed Green Day in the studio. They said they saw the creation of a Christmas album, a new wave album, a punk record, and finally what would became American Idiot.

Well fuck now I want to see HLAHG, and a Christmas album would be amazing

#389
Tman684

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Well fuck now I want to see HLAHG, and a Christmas album would be amazing

What if it was called "(Red and) Green Day"? 



#390
Jon Benjamin

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I wanna hear this album more than anything.



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