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MrsBillieJoe95

Cigarettes and Valentines

472 posts in this topic

I just don't see it. The songs seem to be written in the style that they are performed. Maybe 'Roshambo' if anything, because the lyrics and melody could just as easily be a Green Day song instead. However, songs like 'Hungry Hungry' and 'X Ray Hamburger' make me strongly disagree with that logic.

I think it was just the band going into unknown territory and trying something totally different, reinventing themselves as a different band with no pressure. Just purely experimental and fun.

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I personally don't think Warning was a boring album but a lot of people do and back then it was kind of seen as 'Green Day gone soft'. People classified them as old and fat and washed up. Funny how thing's have changed, huh?

They weren't washed up... but... billie got kinda chubby :). HEY, I DID TOO, ALRIGHT?

If MoneyMoney 2020 really is the mangled remains of C&V, they had good reason to put masks on.

Hahaha! Oh man. That's bad. (but i agree. I don't like the Network but it is stupid and goofy and funny so whatever.)

My theory on stolen master tapes is... DUDE, they were still recording on analog in 2003?

i mean there's something to be said for analog vs digital but still. Even if Billie "pissed on a hard drive"... what recording studio would NOT BACK UP shit for a major fucking band like Green Day? Even if there was a power surge, and the computer got "fried", or the HD crashed, or whatever- nothing that is saved is truly ever gone off a hard drive. There are data-recovery specialists that can get that stuff- it may not be something you and i do to get lost vacation pictures back, but you can be damn well sure that if Green Day "lost" some important files (like a new album) they would have the money to put into recovering it.

And yeah, they probably decided that whatever they were working on wasn't that great, and just started anew with AI.

Also, i think they're fucking stashing that shit to posthumously release shit like Tupac and the Beatles. Those wily little fuckers...

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My theory on stolen master tapes is... DUDE, they were still recording on analog in 2003?

i mean there's something to be said for analog vs digital but still. Even if Billie "pissed on a hard drive"... what recording studio would NOT BACK UP shit for a major fucking band like Green Day? Even if there was a power surge, and the computer got "fried", or the HD crashed, or whatever- nothing that is saved is truly ever gone off a hard drive. There are data-recovery specialists that can get that stuff- it may not be something you and i do to get lost vacation pictures back, but you can be damn well sure that if Green Day "lost" some important files (like a new album) they would have the money to put into recovering it.

Also, i think they're fucking stashing that shit to posthumously release shit like Tupac and the Beatles. Those wily little fuckers...

The master tapes were gone, they had backup, but "it just wasn't the same", or something x)

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They weren't washed up... but... billie got kinda chubby :). HEY, I DID TOO, ALRIGHT?

Hahaha! Oh man. That's bad. (but i agree. I don't like the Network but it is stupid and goofy and funny so whatever.)

My theory on stolen master tapes is... DUDE, they were still recording on analog in 2003?

i mean there's something to be said for analog vs digital but still. Even if Billie "pissed on a hard drive"... what recording studio would NOT BACK UP shit for a major fucking band like Green Day? Even if there was a power surge, and the computer got "fried", or the HD crashed, or whatever- nothing that is saved is truly ever gone off a hard drive. There are data-recovery specialists that can get that stuff- it may not be something you and i do to get lost vacation pictures back, but you can be damn well sure that if Green Day "lost" some important files (like a new album) they would have the money to put into recovering it.

And yeah, they probably decided that whatever they were working on wasn't that great, and just started anew with AI.

Also, i think they're fucking stashing that shit to posthumously release shit like Tupac and the Beatles. Those wily little fuckers...

they had backups :) someone posted a video on the first page and mike said something like "We have the backups on CD's but it just wasn't the same." I wondered if they had backups as well and when I saw the video I was relieved that there's at least some sort of version of the songs still :D

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i think the tapes did get stolen only cus hanging around a bunch of local musican's i now know that crap like that can happen. but after the mass "dissapointment" warning they were probubly a little scared and took it as a sign to restart and i say dissapointment with quotes cus i personaly liked the album alot

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I've never beilieved someone stole it, I think tyhey didn't like teh result and decided "to lose" it. Anyway, that would be a little nonsense if we think about the AAF cd in which they include "Cigarettes and Valentines", maybe they liked just that song (and that's because the cd was going to have that name) but not the other songs...only Billie, Mike and Tré know the real truth.

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The master tapes were gone, they had backup, but "it just wasn't the same", or something x)

When the master tapes are gone, or the main hard drive that contains the recorded material, there's this disappointment that can hit you because you put all this time recording it, and now there's the risk of all that hitting the audience before they could sufficiently finish it.

I think that thought process made them question the material and wonder of that is the best they can do, or maybe it's a sign to set the bar even higher.

A lot has been going on between Warning and American Idiot, like the personal issues between Billie, Mike and Tre that eventually got resolved.

We will probably never know for sure what exactly happened to C&V, but the fact that we are having an interesting discussion about it here and for the past 8 years makes it clear that it is actually more fun not to know than to know. But that is my personal opinion :)

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I want them to just sit down one day and write a book personally about their whole career. I'm not talking some 100 page "fact" book either. I would love in depth stuff about them, especially what happened with Cigarettes and Valentines.

Anyways, I have a few theories:

-If it was stolen, guaranteed we would have had somebody leak it. Anyone that would be willing to do that doesn't seem like a fan of the band, so it'd make sense for them to leak it.

-On the other hand, stolen could have meant it was damaged or destroyed on accident. Sort of like it was "stolen" from them. You get what I mean. In this case, they may have went back to listen to it and they really didn't feel the record. They liked it and were proud of it of course, but it just wasn't what they knew they were capable of.

-Now for a crazy idea. No reason to think this at all, it just popped into my head. Say someone did take them, but someone they knew. Could have been one of them, a friend.. but they kept quiet about it. In their mind, whoever took it, may have wanted to do them a favor. Kind of like "Hey. This isn't the best you can do." Since this happened, they took a step back and realized it wasn't what they wanted to do and came out with the epic album they wanted to make. Perhaps the person who took them later admitted it, but in the end they saw it as a blessing in disguise.

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hear is a slight bit of an idea that isn't really as well thought of anymore but they use to keep master tapes on a real bassed device rather then the current technologies like disc and data. so in all honesty to the someone had to have leaked it by now methid is that maybe the person who stole it stole a old real. i mean this is HIGHLY unlikly but it is a possibility. being i know current studios still use them on accation to give a cd a more "old timey" fell (ps please mind my spelling i am REALLY bad at spelling)

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-Now for a crazy idea. No reason to think this at all, it just popped into my head. Say someone did take them, but someone they knew. Could have been one of them, a friend.. but they kept quiet about it. In their mind, whoever took it, may have wanted to do them a favor. Kind of like "Hey. This isn't the best you can do." Since this happened, they took a step back and realized it wasn't what they wanted to do and came out with the epic album they wanted to make. Perhaps the person who took them later admitted it, but in the end they saw it as a blessing in disguise.

IT WAS ROB CAVALLO!! :P

Ahh I see. Now I'm thinking I can remember an interview/article from the early 2000s where the interviewer described being on a tour bus getting drunk with Billie and he was showing him pictures of his family and kneeing down singing a love song he'd recently written for Adrienne. I think I just assumed it was Minnesota Girl rather than it actually saying it in the article though so it probably wasn't about that. I wish I could remember where both these things came from :lol:

The article you're talking about (where Billie's drunk and gets down on one knee to sing a love song) is from the November 2005 Rolling Stone. It was my very first magazine with Green Day (well, just Billie) on the cover, so I remember it perfectly! :wub:

I assumed it was Minnesota Girl too, but just because I heard that song not too long after.

But MG could totally be an older song for all we know :confused:

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IT WAS ROB CAVALLO!! :P

The article you're talking about (where Billie's drunk and gets down on one knee to sing a love song) is from the November 2005 Rolling Stone. It was my very first magazine with Green Day (well, just Billie) on the cover, so I remember it perfectly! :wub:

I assumed it was Minnesota Girl too, but just because I heard that song not too long after.

But MG could totally be an older song for all we know :confused:

Thank you! I'm gonna go and find and re-read that.

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Thank you! I'm gonna go and find and re-read that.

You're welcome!

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IT WAS ROB CAVALLO!! :P

The article you're talking about (where Billie's drunk and gets down on one knee to sing a love song) is from the November 2005 Rolling Stone. It was my very first magazine with Green Day (well, just Billie) on the cover, so I remember it perfectly! :wub:

I assumed it was Minnesota Girl too, but just because I heard that song not too long after.

But MG could totally be an older song for all we know :confused:

I like how on the page where they're supposed to be quoting Milton Keynes (AKA BIAB), they only got like 1/4th of the actual quote :lol:

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I would definitley like to hear it..

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I said before how I believe that the C&V songs are the B-sides from American Idiot and 21CBD, since they all sound similar and have different recording and production credits than the albums do. Either that or demos of C&V songs that were given a professional mix. If you own the CD singles with the B-sides, read the credits and you'll know what I'm talking about.

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That one phone recording around C&V time sounds alot like Christians Inferno. So I can see how you got that idea. ^-^

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I definitely think it existed, but I'm sure it was stolen. It's probably out there somewhere. I highly believe that the song will be on the next album, because for one thing they played it live during the last tour. It's going to sound great as a studio version! And it's actuallly a good thing that the album was stolen because American Idiot was made and Green Day were forced to dig deeper than they've ever dug before.

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At 2:09 they talk about the tapes, either stolen, in storage or in the San Francisco Bay.

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I think they recorded C&V on reels or analog format cause i remember Mike saying they had back up s on DATS tapes and studios dont usual make DATS back ups on pro tools/digitally recorded material....

So whoever stoled it may not have access to convert the reels or adats format...

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If it was stolen I think Billie took them because he wanted to start over

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Ok. Dont hate me for this, but when green day is dead or broken up, then we get C&V and billies solo album and stuff. And right now, we pretty much have all of C&V.

Cigarettes and valentines

What about today

Things i heard today

Why does it always rain on me

Too much too soon

Shoplifter

Governator

Minnesota girl

Olivia

Lights out

Hearts collide

Those all have that "sound" that they belong together, right? All we're missing are recordings of Drop Out and Walk Away and we have a whole album! Yeah. Just wait till green day is dead and the lost album will rise!!

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Too Much Too Soon and Shoplifter are both American Idiot b-sides, not intended for C&V... Lights Out and Hearts Collide (and probably Olivia) are 21CB b-sides, also not intended for C&V. The others could very well be from that project though.

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And right now, we pretty much have all of C&V.

Cigarettes and valentines

What about today

Things i heard today

Why does it always rain on me

Too much too soon

Shoplifter

Governator

Minnesota girl

Olivia

Lights out

Hearts collide

Sounds about right, except for Shoplifter. If you listen to part 2 of Homecoming; East 12th St, it's pretty clear that Jesus of Suburbia has been arrested for something and is at a cop shop, although it doesn't specify what.

"Jesus filling out paperwork now

At the facility on east 12th st.

He's not listening to a word now"

So, Shoplifter would be a pretty reasonable track for explaining what happened, which makes me think that Shoplifter was definitely made for American Idiot, not C&V.

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Too Much Too Soon and Shoplifter are both American Idiot b-sides, not intended for C&V... Lights Out and Hearts Collide (and probably Olivia) are 21CB b-sides, also not intended for C&V. The others could very well be from that project though.

I think I read somewhere that Too Much Too Soon was originally for C&V... but I'm not sure where that came from or if it's true at all.

How do we know the other titles, like Walk Away and Drop Out? I wasn't around before American Idiot, so I'm still a little confused about the songs people somehow know about for C&V and how much anyone knew about their recording before it was announced that the album was stolen...

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^Yeah Billie said Too Much Too Soon was on it.

Ok. Dont hate me for this, but when green day is dead or broken up, then we get C&V and billies solo album and stuff. And right now, we pretty much have all of C&V.

Cigarettes and valentines

What about today

Things i heard today

Why does it always rain on me

Too much too soon

Shoplifter

Governator

Minnesota girl

Olivia

Lights out

Hearts collide

Those all have that "sound" that they belong together, right? All we're missing are recordings of Drop Out and Walk Away and we have a whole album! Yeah. Just wait till green day is dead and the lost album will rise!!

The only songs there that we know were on C&V are Cigarettes And Valentines and Too Much Too Soon. What About Today sounds more like a Network demo, Why Does It Always Rain On Me is a cover (it's a Travis song), Shoplifter and Governator are AI b-sides, Lights Out, Hearts Collide and Olivia are 21st CB b-sides, and we don't know about Minnesota Girl or Things I Heard Today.

Any of them could have been intended for C&V just like any song they've written that we don't know the exact origin of could have been. But there's no point in assuming or speculating that they were when we have no way of finding out if we're right or not. The only way to know is if Green Day says so.

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