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MrsBillieJoe95

Cigarettes and Valentines

472 posts in this topic

Dammit, i wish it HAD leaked!

don't we all? :happy:

My opinion is not that they felt they weren't doing their best, but I think there was a point that they thought: "come on, it's just the same thing we've been doing for the last 5 years, shouldn't we try something new?". I mean, Warning is great, but it wasn't as sucessfull as Green Day deserves. I remember I had read somewhere that by that time things weren't working well inside the band and Billie were thinking in going in a solo career. It fits! There's also the Network thing: I've always thought they were just C&V's songs, just mixed with other things to not sound like Green Day. It's from the same time, they couldn't just work on both Network and C&V songs at the same time!

Also I think the C&V song they played on 21st Century Breakdown tour isn't the same it was back in 2003. You can notice in Jason White's solo: it's something they've done a lot on 21st Century Breakdown songs. It's new stuff. I think it's probably going to be released on the upcoming record (on the album or as a b-side), but I don't think the next album is going to be C&V as someone said here. If you hear the new songs (except for Nuclear Family and Carpe Diem, I think), it sounds a lot like FHT, which this spirit has come to them in 2007/2008.

What happens about people not believing it is just that the band didn't give much details about it. I mean, all we officially know is that the master tapes were simply gone. Don't know any track names but C&V, they didn't even play any song live until the last leg of the last american tour. Come on, it's Green Day, they're a huge band. It's really hard to believe that a whole album is suddenly gone.

I haven't heard much Network and still don't know much about em (didn't really like the couple songs I had heard. Heard TFM on Tony Hawk's American Wasteland though and it's okay :P Billie's an unlockable character on there xD :lol:), but idt that Money Money 2020 was every C&V. I think that came around more from them messing around in the studio and them deciding to be stupid :lol:

Nobody really doubts that it's not the same as the original. I bet they revisited the song since they thought it could have some potential :)

I know you already adressed the Network comment, but bitch please, they're Green Day :lol::wub:

I think it sounds more like the solos from 39/Smooth actually!

Anyway, 'Cigarettes and Valentines' would be an awesome opening song for an album. The direct, opening riff powers in, followed by the pause while Billie blasts out the opening lyrics, and the whole explosion of noise would get anyone right into the album. The lyrics work well too, 'Oh come away, with me tonight, with Cigarettes and Valentines', as in come along with Green Day on this album of the next 45 mins or so, and hope it doesn't 'pass me by'. 'Paralyse this moment til it dies' because it's going to be great! The ending also entices you for more...

As for the other songs on the album on the thread linked above from 2009 it said in an interview Billie named 'Cigarettes and Valentines,' 'Drop Out' and 'Walk Away as three of the songs. I bet some of the Foxboro Hot Tubs stuff is off there too, maybe 'Broadway', 'Alligator' and perhaps 'Stop, Drop and Roll'. I bet a lot of the lyrics and riffs from 'Cigarettes and Valentines' songs have been reused on later material, such as the 'red alert' lyrics in both 'Cigarettes and Valentines' and 'American Eulogy' so I doubt the album will ever see the light of day, whether Green Day have it or not.

I can hear it now *looks off to the upper left* :lol: A Green Day album never truly dies, but it's still going to be great to act like it might hehe.

You have a very good point! I never thought about that :D

Because they're always so sketchy when they talk about it . :lol: Totally nudge nudge wink wink with Tre making faces and stuff.

I think whether it was stolen/misplaced or not is somewhat irrelevant. Whatever happened to the master tapes they would've had other recordings of at least some if not all of it and would've remembered it. Whatever happened they could've recreated it if they'd wanted to. I think that's why they're silly when they talk about it being stolen - they have a laugh with it and don't take it too seriously because whether it was stolen or not makes little difference to how easy it would've been to carry on with the album if they'd really wanted to.

They've explained it themselves really, they were working on the album but then they realized it wasn't "maximum Green Day" and that they could push themselves further and do better. So they scrapped it. It was all/part of it being stolen/misplaced (whichever it was) that made them stop and rethink what they were doing and come to that conclusion. They've been honest in saying they realized they could do better so they started over so I don't think there's any huge mystery about it.

I agree 99% :) the only thing I don't fully agree on is the mystery part. I think that it's not too big of a mystery surrounding how they felt and for starting over, but it's still kinda mysterious about how it truly *more or less* disappeared from existence. We've pretty much come to the conclusion that they weren't happy with the album and it was part of the reason for starting over. We just can't figure out the middle part!

So, I do think that it existed, but just that they scrapped it and started again, unless the person who stole them was Billie, which has been rumoured. I don't know, we need more information to make a proper decision on it. I think they left out anything that would lead to the full story so that we could never find them. :ermm:

I kinda wonder if Billie didn't do something to it, but I don't believe he did. I think he would have said something to everyone else first and then done something. Why must they be so light on details?!

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Sometimes I think that it wasn't actually stolen. They said that they decided to start over and not record those songs again. But I always wondered: "what, an entire record just dissapeared and you're not going to do anything about it?" Sometimes sounds too crazy, and sometimes is like 'thank god, because of that bad incident they create American Idiot'.

I wouldn't care so much. They obviously didn't and moved on.

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I remember, shortly after the band started recording the elusive C&V album, that some poor quality demos made it onto the web. These turned out to be early versions of Network songs. Maybe some of C&V was eventually released on Money Money 2020?

I still have the demos saved somewhere

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The only thing remember was about 10 years ago Billie would post those messages on GD.com and one of the demos he posted very very mildly resembled the guitar riff from Spike.

I don't think Money Money 2020 has anything to do with C&V, I think it was just something new and out of the ordinary for them to do to keep focued on making another record without getting bored. I mean who really wants to write an album, start recording it, scrap it and then immediately start on a new one? And if they did, do you really think they would have just come up with American Idiot on the spot?

I'd have to say no.

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I remember, shortly after the band started recording the elusive C&V album, that some poor quality demos made it onto the web. These turned out to be early versions of Network songs. Maybe some of C&V was eventually released on Money Money 2020?

I still have the demos saved somewhere

Nah I think they made Money Money 2020 after C&V was scrapped. The band has said C&V was similar to what they'd been doing before, that it was Warning-like. And they said it wasn't ambitious enough and not "maximum Green Day". Money Money 2020 is VERY experimental and different and new. I'd say they made it while they were being super ambitious and open minded and trying all kinds of new things while they were working on American Idiot.

I think the demos you're referring to were the songs Billie played down the phone when he left those phone messages on GD.com (eg Minnesota Girl and some Christmas covers). One was Network-like though, maybe that was the very first Network type song they worked on. But I don't think that song is connected to C&V even if it was made around the same time since it's so different to their description of the album.

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I don't remember if it was radio or tv, but during the "American Idiot" broadway interviews that he did, I do recall Billie Joe saying that the song "Too Much Too Soon" was a song from the lost album.

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I think they scrapped it. I don't believe it was stolen. Maybe it was accidentally deleted or misplaced, but if that's the case, then I don't think that was the reason they decided not to go through with it.

I've always theorized that What About Today, Things I Heard Today, and Minnesota Girl were from C&V. My only grounds for it are that they were put out around the same time as they were working on the album, and I think What About Today sounds like it would go with C&V on an album well, though.

Minnesota Girl is like twenty years old though. I don't remember where I heard or read it, but apparently Billie wrote it for Adie when they were dating, so that'd be the early '90s.

I don't remember if it was radio or tv, but during the "American Idiot" broadway interviews that he did, I do recall Billie Joe saying that the song "Too Much Too Soon" was a song from the lost album.

That was on a radio interview.

http://www.greendaya...y.com/news/338/ around 2:50

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at least they have back-ups of the songs! I didn't think they were stupid enough to not make copies, but I had never seen that video :P I wish they would revisit it or at least tease us some with some "leaks" ;) gah!

That was on a radio interview.

http://www.greendaya...y.com/news/338/ around 2:50

one does not simply skip parts of a Green Day interview! You must listen to it all :D xD

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Ooh I'd forgotten about Too Much Too Soon being on it. I was surprised when I first heard that but it makes sense really, it's got that same "in between Warning and American Idiot" sound as Maria and Ha Ha You're Dead, and Cigarettes And Valentines. I'd say that's more evidence that Cigarettes And Valentines was really on that album, the sound of it fits.

Minnesota Girl is like twenty years old though. I don't remember where I heard or read it, but apparently Billie wrote it for Adie when they were dating, so that'd be the early '90s.

Could you be thinking of When It's Time? He wrote that for her when he was 19. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota Girl is that old too.

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Could you be thinking of When It's Time? He wrote that for her when he was 19. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota Girl is that old too.

I heard Minnesota Girl was that old too... I wish I remembered where I heard it though =/

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I used to believe that it was stolen, but personally after I knew that they denied to be The Network, I don't think that what they publicly state is always trustworthy :lol:

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I heard Minnesota Girl was that old too... I wish I remembered where I heard it though =/

Ahh I see. Now I'm thinking I can remember an interview/article from the early 2000s where the interviewer described being on a tour bus getting drunk with Billie and he was showing him pictures of his family and kneeing down singing a love song he'd recently written for Adrienne. I think I just assumed it was Minnesota Girl rather than it actually saying it in the article though so it probably wasn't about that. I wish I could remember where both these things came from :lol:

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I was around the Green Day's website dated December 2003 and I found a link for this article on MTV: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1484195/green-day-promise-new-album-04.jhtml Is it about American Idiot or Cigarettes and Valentines? Billie Joe seemed pretty excited and he said they were working on this for 3 years (that's why I thought it was C&V).

Idk, just wanted to share. :lol:

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I think the album wasn't good, if not they would have recorded again

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I'm sure the album was good, it just wasn't as epic and spine tingling as American Idiot . . Which is why I'm sure it was shelved. In all honesty sometimes I think they had most of the album written but none of it recorded and they just made up the stolen master tapes story instead of being like 'yea, we were lazy and our band was falling apart so we tightened it up and set out to make the best album we've ever made instead of another boring album like Warning'.

I personally don't think Warning was a boring album but a lot of people do and back then it was kind of seen as 'Green Day gone soft'. People classified them as old and fat and washed up. Funny how thing's have changed, huh?

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I was around the Green Day's website dated December 2003 and I found a link for this article on MTV: http://www.mtv.com/n...-album-04.jhtml Is it about American Idiot or Cigarettes and Valentines? Billie Joe seemed pretty excited and he said they were working on this for 3 years (that's why I thought it was C&V).

Idk, just wanted to share. :lol:

I think by the end of 2003 they were well into working on American Idiot so he must've been talking about American Idiot. I think Billie was including trying out and scrapping C&V in the "it's taken me about three and a half years" part. Like, it's taken 3 1/2 years of trying stuff out for me to finally now make something that blows me away (American Idiot).

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I think they scrapped it. I don't believe it was stolen. Maybe it was accidentally deleted or misplaced, but if that's the case, then I don't think that was the reason they decided not to go through with it.

Minnesota Girl is like twenty years old though. I don't remember where I heard or read it, but apparently Billie wrote it for Adie when they were dating, so that'd be the early '90s.

That was on a radio interview.

http://www.greendaya...y.com/news/338/ around 2:50

Now that you mention it, I think I remember hearing that too.

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I think it existed (since we know the cong Cigarettes and Valentines now and some new songs thast could come from that album as well) and I actually don't think that they would say it was stolen if they just didn't like it, i think they would tell us the truth, i mean, why shouldn't they tell us? they know that we'd forgive them if they tell us that the album takes a bit longer cos it wasn't perfect, we'd all know that they just wanna make it better and i'm sure many of us would have been happy then

....ok, maybe it wasn't stolen - i can't judge it cos i wasn't there - but i'm sure there really happened something with the album...yeah maybe they misplaced it...maybe they thought it would be embarrassing and decided to not tell us....that could also be a reason why they now release some songs: they maybe have found the recordings ;)

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do you really think they would have just come up with American Idiot on the spot?

I'd have to say no.

Well, if Cigarettes and Valentines was stolen some time in 2003 (anyone know when exactly) then they'd have at least 9 months to come up with American Idiot which was released 21st September 2004 (good old Wikipedia!) which thinking how spontaneous the writing of American Idiot sounds from interviews could well be true. They also made Insomniac in a very short space of time off the back of the Dookie tour for release in 1995.

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Insomniac, totally. American Idiot was not written in a couple weeks and then recorded in a proper studio. There seems to have been a lot of experimentation and quite a few months of writing. Didn't Billie go to NYC alone to get inspired and get in touch with his inner demons? I'm guessing that happened sometime between the abandonment of C&V and the beginning of American Idiot.

I'm guessing that C&V was scheduled to be released around the time that Money Money 2020 was and that The Network was a byproduct of the band going into extreme wall breaking mode. Something fun to do that takes the stress of making a great album away.

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I think the album wasn't good, if not they would have recorded again

I think it would have been a great album, but I think they thought it wouldn't get much attention as it probably should have. I bet it would get plenty of attention now if they decided to fully revisit the album though :) most def. would on GDA :lol: but come on, what Green Day album doesn't get the attention it deserves on here? haha

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Ok maybe I didn't word my post very well. I'm not saying C&V is Money Money 2020, i'm just saying that possibly some of the songs were reworked for the album?

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Ok maybe I didn't word my post very well. I'm not saying C&V is Money Money 2020, i'm just saying that possibly some of the songs were reworked for the album?

I suppose that's possible, just like they could rework any songs they've written. They'd have to have been reworked a LOT in this case though, since C&V is meant to have been Warning-like and Money Money 2020 is 80's style punky new wave with space age lyrics about robots and stuff :lol:. I guess it's possible that they could've used any song they'd written in the past but not released as the starting point for a song on there but it all sounds very new and fresh to me, more like something they came up with while they were being super creative and trying new things out while making American Idiot.

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If MoneyMoney 2020 really is the mangled remains of C&V, they had good reason to put masks on. I mean it's a good album, but not as a comback for someone as great as Green Day.

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