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Adoption of Children by Same Sex Couples

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257 replies to this topic

#241
mmmcrazypills

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Alright, the kids would still know the difference between genders. But by showing kids that two males/females are raising children, it's basically saying male and female can play each other's roles in life, which they can't.

Self-hating? Seriously?



Then perhaps you should read more.

Again and again, I am given the same arguments. We've already talked about all the above arguments. I do not remember who or which post, but somebody said these social tests are unreliable because of personal bias from teachers whose opinion was asked, parents attached to the kids, and the children studied themselves. There is some truth to these studies, but you can't place statistics on emotions.

When I say being raised in a same-sex household affects a child, I did not say in an adverse way. Do you seriously believe that a child raised by hetero parents would have had the same life, same take on everything, if raised by homo parents? That's impossible. Yeah, children will see other males and females in their life to influence them, but parents are the main source of impression for kids, the center point of thier lives. Having homo parents will make a huge impression, whether good or neutral, on the kid.


Did you read that link at all? I linked you to actual studies with actual evidence not random bullshit conjecture. When you can counter the APA and over a dozen studies, please, do.

#242
Catbug

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Just thought I'd share with you guys this video of the so called "damage" same sex marriage can do to a kid when he's older


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#243
americanidiot812

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This is to be my last post on this thread:

1.) Read the whole link. Link never gave any numbers/data to back itself up, only conclusions, and data was sort of what I was looking for.

2.) I can tell many (if not all) of you are left-wing/liberals. There's nothing wrong with that, I know many extremely smart liberals, and occasionally I do see eye-to-eye with them albeit not often. In this case, I disagree but I do see where you are coming from and why you think the way you do.

3.) Having said the above, I'm sure you can tell I am right-wing/conservative. Again, nothing wrong there; I know many intelligent conservatives. I tend to agree with conservatives more often. I do hope one day some of you open your eyes and realize there are millions more like me, that what I'm saying isn't something I randomly conjured up just to troll with. I hope you can see some reasons why right-winged people oppose gay adoption.

Because part of a debate is learning that you are not always right, and that the opponent isn't an idiot. I can tell some of you are smart, and some good sources for your side have been proven. I'm probably wrong in some respects, and so are you. I wouldn't say one of us is supremely right.

#244
lastnightonGDA

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Uh, I would. Sorry, I just don't tolerate intolerance.

#245
Vespertine

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This is to be my last post on this thread:

1.) Read the whole link. Link never gave any numbers/data to back itself up, only conclusions, and data was sort of what I was looking for.

2.) I can tell many (if not all) of you are left-wing/liberals. There's nothing wrong with that, I know many extremely smart liberals, and occasionally I do see eye-to-eye with them albeit not often. In this case, I disagree but I do see where you are coming from and why you think the way you do.

3.) Having said the above, I'm sure you can tell I am right-wing/conservative. Again, nothing wrong there; I know many intelligent conservatives. I tend to agree with conservatives more often. I do hope one day some of you open your eyes and realize there are millions more like me, that what I'm saying isn't something I randomly conjured up just to troll with. I hope you can see some reasons why right-winged people oppose gay adoption.

Because part of a debate is learning that you are not always right, and that the opponent isn't an idiot. I can tell some of you are smart, and some good sources for your side have been proven. I'm probably wrong in some respects, and so are you. I wouldn't say one of us is supremely right.


I wouldn't say you are stupid, however I'd say you're rather uninformed about a lot of things.
The problem is that you're not really interested in changing your point of view, much less in seeing things from a different perspective. You're extremely entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'd say you should open your mind a bit.
Also, you have presented no evidence to back up any of your arguments, which makes everything you say completely unreliable; Meanwhile, you can find different studies which have been linked to you on this thread, but all you seem to do is ignore them and say they shouldn't be much relied upon. Seriously?

#246
mmmcrazypills

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This is to be my last post on this thread:

1.) Read the whole link. Link never gave any numbers/data to back itself up, only conclusions, and data was sort of what I was looking for.

2.) I can tell many (if not all) of you are left-wing/liberals. There's nothing wrong with that, I know many extremely smart liberals, and occasionally I do see eye-to-eye with them albeit not often. In this case, I disagree but I do see where you are coming from and why you think the way you do.

3.) Having said the above, I'm sure you can tell I am right-wing/conservative. Again, nothing wrong there; I know many intelligent conservatives. I tend to agree with conservatives more often. I do hope one day some of you open your eyes and realize there are millions more like me, that what I'm saying isn't something I randomly conjured up just to troll with. I hope you can see some reasons why right-winged people oppose gay adoption.

Because part of a debate is learning that you are not always right, and that the opponent isn't an idiot. I can tell some of you are smart, and some good sources for your side have been proven. I'm probably wrong in some respects, and so are you. I wouldn't say one of us is supremely right.


Okay. Let's start with ~conservatism. If true conservatism is about small government then dictating the lives of citizens is not true conservatism. This isn't a left/right issue anyways.

That link I left you links to PLENTY of numbers, in fact, I've been reading Patterson's studies for the past half hour, and nothing has corroborated your claims. You can't demand numbers without providing your own statistical data anyway, that is insanity.

#247
Boston

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The reason no one is willing to get on your side is that converting people who believe in advancing the social agenda of the world rather than sending it backwards a few steps is ridiculous. And yes, by denying rights to members of your own community (thereby including yourself), you are what is known as a "self-hating homo."

There's part of me that wants to step back from fighting with people like you, but I know that if I don't than your fucked-up agenda will continue to rule uncontested, and that just doesn't fly with me.

#248
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

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Alright, the kids would still know the difference between genders. But by showing kids that two males/females are raising children, it's basically saying male and female can play each other's roles in life, which they can't.

It's not saying that they will play each other's roles in life, and they can. Do you seriously still believe that females are only good for being a stay-at-home mom and cleaning the house, and males should go to work and provide money and food? As parents you play the role of parents. Not a stereotypical gender role. The sex of the parents doesn't matter in whether they are good parents.

3.) Having said the above, I'm sure you can tell I am right-wing/conservative. Again, nothing wrong there; I know many intelligent conservatives. I tend to agree with conservatives more often. I do hope one day some of you open your eyes and realize there are millions more like me, that what I'm saying isn't something I randomly conjured up just to troll with. I hope you can see some reasons why right-winged people oppose gay adoption.

I disagree with the millions more like you. You just happen to be the one on the forum we debate with. And numbers don't make it right.


When I say being raised in a same-sex household affects a child, I did not say in an adverse way. Do you seriously believe that a child raised by hetero parents would have had the same life, same take on everything, if raised by homo parents? That's impossible. Yeah, children will see other males and females in their life to influence them, but parents are the main source of impression for kids, the center point of thier lives. Having homo parents will make a huge impression, whether good or neutral, on the kid.

But why do you think being raised by heterosexual parents is the ideal way of being raised? There is absolutely no evidence pointing towards that. And you say that being raised in a same-sex household will not affect the child in an adverse way. So why does it matter then? What's so wrong with being raised in a way that's not the "normal" (normal as in that it's most occuring) way? Children of single parents won't have the same life as children with two parents either. What are you going to do, forbid single people to have children or making divorce illegal?

#249
Hermione

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When I say being raised in a same-sex household affects a child, I did not say in an adverse way. Do you seriously believe that a child raised by hetero parents would have had the same life, same take on everything, if raised by homo parents? That's impossible. Yeah, children will see other males and females in their life to influence them, but parents are the main source of impression for kids, the center point of thier lives. Having homo parents will make a huge impression, whether good or neutral, on the kid.

Of course being raised in a same sex household will make their life different. Every tiny little detail of a child's upbringing makes their life different in some way! Being raised in a children's home is different too. So is being raised by a single parent. So is being raised by religious fundamentalists as opposed to atheists. So is being raised by rich parents as opposed to poor. So is being raised by parents who push them to do well in school as opposed to those who don't. This list is endless. All parents are different and all will have different influences on a child.

What matters is if those influences are HARMFUL or NEGATIVE in some way. There's no evidence that a child's adoptive parents being of the same sex can have a negative influence on them. However there IS evidence that being raised in a children's home can have a negative influence on a child.

Also you said the truly "natural" way is for unwanted children to be left to fend for themselves. So clearly being looked after in a children's home is no more "natural" than being looked after by a same sex couple. "Natural" doesn't come into this as neither of those situations are natural by your definition. You admit yourself that being raised by a same sex couple doesn't have an adverse effect and we both know that being raised in a children's home most likely will have an adverse effect. So how can you think the children's home is the better option?
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#250
Trotsky

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This is to be my last post on this thread:


Here's what you do:

Find a member of the same sex you find attractive.
Get laid.
You'll stop hating yourself.
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#251
Yussef

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Because part of a debate is learning that you are not always right, and that the opponent isn't an idiot.

This debate isn't really on a subjective matter though so there is a wrong side. Yours.
Nobody is going to stop me from having a child with John...I mean, what?
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#252
Trotsky

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Nobody is going to stop me from having a child with John...I mean, what?


I'm certainly not going to stop you.

#253
ScreamsInSilence815

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Just popping in to say that any loving family that takes good care of you is far better than no family at all, no matter the genders of the parent(s) involved.
Carry on.

EDIT: Oh jfc the bible thumper is back.

Usually, I'm a pretty firm supporter of gay rights (I have nothing against gays). I don't support LGBT marriage in a church or other religious place, but I think two gays should be allowed to get a civil union. As far as adoption, I'm kinda torn.

Pros: More loving families to take in orphans/adoptees. A gay couple could have a child if they desire.

Cons: Nobody is ENTITLED to children (they're not rights.) Part of growing up involves influences from a feminine and masculine viewpoint. By giving a child only one of these, they miss a crucial viewpoint and influence on their life.

I personally believe most people are born bi and society forces us into one viewpoint or the other. Going by that, growing up in a gay household might influence the child's orientation. (no proof though)


My best friend was raised by a single mother and is one of the greatest, most decent, kindest people I know. Should we forbid single parents from raising children, then? Oh, and guess what, his father wasn't involved in his life at all. He barely had male role models growing up. Guess what, he's not gay! Also, my other best friend grew up in a two parent household. His father is probably one of the manliest men you could ever meet. He had both his father and his older brother as male models, and guess what, he's gay. Surprise! Sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with social conditioning.

The entire human species isn't bisexual. Let's just get that out of the way now. There are many different sexual orientations, and to claim that society "makes" someone one way or the other is bullshit. By that standard, why are some children born into homophobic households homosexual, if their parents and society was telling them it was disgusting? I'll use myself as an example. No one in my family is bisexual or homosexual. Both sides of the family are super conservative and homophobic. My dad is the perfect example of a bigot. Why am I bisexual, then, when, according to your "standard," I should have been pushed one way or the other? But that's a discussion for another day, so I digress.

Oh, and claiming yourself to be a supporter of gay rights, and then turning around and saying they have no right to legal marriage or to give a needy child a loving, stable home, you are clearly NOT for gay rights, as you are saying they should be treated as second class citizens.

People are never born gay or trans gendered


You know what? You're right. I just got out of bed one day, looked around, and said to myself "gee, boobies are great, I think I'll start liking women!" when the majority of my peers in school were incredibly homophobic, my entire family except my mom would reject me if they found out, and I've been treated as a second class citizen ever since. I obviously chose that for myself. :rolleyes:

#254
Yussef

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I chose being interested in women but it wasn't enough so I consciously chose to identify as a straight male and now everything in my life is right again.

I'm certainly not going to stop you.

Excellent.
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#255
SLAPPYplatypus

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i think that anyone should have the right to be a parent - if he or she wants to, and that it shouldn't really matter what sex the members of a couple are, as long as they truly love each other and could give their love to a child too.
yeah i had something really clever to say but i kind of forgot that :mellow:

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#256
MrsBillieJoe95

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I think that adoption should be open to couples of every type. It shouldn't matter whether the couple is heterosexual, homosexual, asexual (yes, there are asexual couples), Bisexual, Pansexual, etc...

My question about it is why should it matter? If a man who loves another man has wishes to be a father (or mother if their maternal instincts are better than their paternal), or a woman who loves another woman wishes to have children, and they've proven that they are fully willling to and capable of caring for the child(ren), then why should we be able to tell them "no, you're not allowed to do this because church and state aren't seperated"?

I know a woman named Lisa who's been in a "domestic relationship" (i hate that term -___- it just makes it sound like being in a same-sex relationship is wrong) with the same woman for a while now (I'm not sure how long they've been together). They both have jobs and have made honest livings for themselves. Why should anyone be able to tell two people who have been together longer than probably 80% of marriages last that they're not allowed to adopt a child? In fact, Lisa (I'm not sure about her girlfriend/wife- whichever she would be considered) had custody over her nephew (I believe it's her nephew at least) and they care for that child as if her were their own son. They take better care of him than most heterosexual couples do!

I think it all goes back to church and state though. If you ask the government, they tell you that church and state are separate, but we know it's not really. Basically anything outside of heterosexual relationships is seen as "immoral" (for whatever reason. one duh one is the bible says homosexuality is wrong, which is one reason used to argue against non-heterosexual relationships) >.< It's seen as "unnatural" (when in all reality it's completely natural), so a lot of people automatically reject it and say it's wrong. Not to turn this into a gay marriage/relationship thread, but it kinda goes back to it to an extent.

#257
Rush guy

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(sorry if there are any repeated points here, I'm coming to the debate late and didn't have time to read.)
  • As far as I can tell, there are more than enough children who need adopting and some pretty damn capable same sex couples. I'm sure there are plenty of sub-par counterexamples, but it's not like there aren't plenty of those for heterosexual couples too. Surely a healthy same sex couple is better than a bad heterosexual couple.
  • There is no evidence that the sexual orientation of the couple is correlated with the effectiveness of child-rearing. It won't mess with a child's functioning schema of gender roles because they are still influenced by the culture around them.
Considering these points, my stance is that children should be adopted by the people most capable of raising them, regardless of sexual orientation.

#258
Peace and Rainbows

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http://news.yahoo.co...-131902676.html
This article sums up why gays and lesbians should adopt.



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