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Adoption of Children by Same Sex Couples

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#31
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I don't see a problem with it. Every child deserves a home with parents who love them.
We had a dissucion about this when I went to high school. It was about 80% Muslims in my class, and none off them were for it. Because being gay apperantley was a sin.

It's not legal in Denmark? http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


I thought it was. We should look it up. :)

#32
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I thought it was. We should look it up. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

I did look it up. I didn't really understand it though. It was something about that you can adopt a child as a homosexual but only as one person. Not as a couple :wacko:

#33
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Well you're right. But I still see it as a problem. But in the kind of same way as you get bullied because you're short just worse. There's nothing wrong with being short, but there's a problem getting bullied because of it

Of course bullying is always bad, but anyway we can't just say to homosexual couples that they can't adopt because some motherfuckers MAY bully their son. I have been bullied and I have heterosexual parents, so there's no point saying that they can't because they may suffer bullying, anyone can be bullied.

#34
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Rockin' debate, excellent starting post. Kudos to you. However...



First of all, so what? Second of all, maybe those children just feel more comfortable about coming out as gay, since they grew up in a household where neither parent was shoving homophobic bullshit down their throat?

Exactly. It hasn't been officially proven, but being homosexual is thought to be based on the combination of hormones and a certain gene. Therefore, no matter where a kid grows up, their sexuality isn't altered. They may feel more open to experiement, but in the end they are what they are. I'll explain more when I'm not on my phone.

#35
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Of course bullying is always bad, but anyway we can't just say to homosexual couples that they can't adopt because some motherfuckers MAY bully their son. I have been bullied and I have heterosexual parents, so there's no point saying that they can't because they may suffer bullying, anyone can be bullied.

I'd NEVER said it was a reason to make it illegal. Only it was a problem

#36
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Well you're right. But I still see it as a problem. But in the kind of same way as you get bullied because you're short just worse. There's nothing wrong with being short, but there's a problem getting bullied because of it

and my point is we aim to fix the BULLIES, not the people getting bullied, so that bullying doesn't happen

#37
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and my point is we aim to fix the BULLIES, not the people getting bullied, so that bullying doesn't happen

Ofcause. I agree

#38
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I have absolutely no problem with a homosexual couple wanting to adopt children.

As long as the couple are good, decent people that want to love, care and raise a child to the best of their ability, then why deny them that opportunity?

There are too many children out there that are homeless, parentless, or need to be taken away from their unsafe home. Any person, gay or straight who wants to give those children a better life should be given the right to adopt.

#39
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#40
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#41
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Okay changing tack. So we mostly agree that it should be universally allowed for same-sex couples to adopt; why then, do you think, that people believe that it should be illegal/not-allowed? How do you think their minds can be changed?


I think there would be more acceptance from straight people in general if they could understand that, a child, raised by homosexual parents, will never simply become gay because the environment they grew up in.

#42
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I think mostly of the people than don't want homosexual couples to adopt is because they think their childs will become gays too. Imo, that may happen or may not, but seriously, who cares? for me sexuality is as important as the colour of your hair, it doesn't matter at all, being blonde doesn't mean that you're a good person, the same happens with sexuality. Anyway, heterosexual couples have homosexual and heterosexual childrem, so we can't really asume that homosexual couples will have just homosexual childrem.

#43
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wow brilliant timing.

For me English thesis, i'm doing the topic of LGBT equality with the main focus on marriage and adoptions.
I can't find my notes (I think I left them in the classroom) but I do have many credible sources from first hand testimonies of children raised in same sex homes, whether they were biologically related to the parents or adopted. If I have time I will post them.

I fully support equality in adoption, marriage, or basically anything pertaining to the LGBT community.

When I get back all my notes i'll complete my post about my opinion.

#44
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Usually, I'm a pretty firm supporter of gay rights (I have nothing against gays). I don't support LGBT marriage in a church or other religious place, but I think two gays should be allowed to get a civil union. As far as adoption, I'm kinda torn.

Pros: More loving families to take in orphans/adoptees. A gay couple could have a child if they desire.

Cons: Nobody is ENTITLED to children (they're not rights.) Part of growing up involves influences from a feminine and masculine viewpoint. By giving a child only one of these, they miss a crucial viewpoint and influence on their life.

I personally believe most people are born bi and society forces us into one viewpoint or the other. Going by that, growing up in a gay household might influence the child's orientation. (no proof though)

#45
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I definitely support same sex couples adopting.
There are thousands of abusive or otherwise unsuitable families in which children are raised, yet same sex couples who wish for nothing more than a child they can love, who would offer a happy, stable and safe home, are refused. It's not right.

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#46
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Okay changing tack. So we mostly agree that it should be universally allowed for same-sex couples to adopt; why then, do you think, that people believe that it should be illegal/not-allowed? How do you think their minds can be changed?


Persuasion only goes so far. Homophobia must be made into a social taboo so that homophobes keep their bigotry to themselves, because of the ostracism they would face for saying things like 'gays shouldn't be allowed to raise children.' Right now, that is considered an acceptable position to have by much of society, it should not be, it should be a universally condemned viewpoint.

This is accomplished by raising a more equality minded-generation. For the amount of hatred and even violence which has been directed at gay people for so long, a militant stance against homophobia is entirely justified.

#47
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Usually, I'm a pretty firm supporter of gay rights (I have nothing against gays). I don't support LGBT marriage in a church or other religious place, but I think two gays should be allowed to get a civil union. As far as adoption, I'm kinda torn.

Pros: More loving families to take in orphans/adoptees. A gay couple could have a child if they desire.

Cons: Nobody is ENTITLED to children (they're not rights.) Part of growing up involves influences from a feminine and masculine viewpoint. By giving a child only one of these, they miss a crucial viewpoint and influence on their life.

I personally believe most people are born bi and society forces us into one viewpoint or the other. Going by that, growing up in a gay household might influence the child's orientation. (no proof though)


First of all, it is the choice of each religious institution whether or not to perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples, and no one is saying any religious institution should be forced to perform any ceremonies at all, they are free to do what they wish. That being said, there are many churches, including huge denominations of Christianity like Episcopals, who perform gay marriages, and that is none of your business, if you don't like it then don't associate with that church.

Also, in most cases, civil unions are different than marriage, it is not just a difference in words - it is a matter of the benefits they are entitled to. Gay people deserve the same marriage licenses that straight people get from the state, churches have nothing to do with marriage licenses.

Yes, people do have the right to raise children, unless these rights are relinquished by abuse or neglect of those children, which is not unlike how any crime works, certain rights could be lost in the event that they break the law. But raising children is basically the same kind of right as living where you want to and wearing what you want to, it is an uninfringed upon right in normal cases. You don't see anyone interfering with heterosexual birthing of children, regardless of the background or competency of the heterosexual couple (once again, barring the exception of legal violations).

Single parents should be able to adopt, gay couples should be able to adopt, and anyone who is capable of raising children in a loving and caring environment should have that right. And as for the "straight parents are ideal" argument, let me sum it up with this:

It does not matter what is ideal. Adopted children are not a rare commodity. I would venture most permanent homes are more ideal than foster care, and there is the science to back that up. Even if gay parents couldn't raise children the same way as straight parents, so what? THEY ARE NOT COMPETING WITH HETEROSEXUALS FOR CHILDREN.
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#48
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About the masculine/feminine influence bit, one in four children in the US is being raised in a single-parent household, and an overwhelming majority of those families are female-headed households. Along with this, there is the phenomenon known as the feminization of poverty, wherein the disadvantages toward women in terms of unequal pay and benefits leaves female-headed households impoverished. However, since these children were born either as the result of an unwanted pregnancy or a marriage that dissolved, there is no dispute over whether a) these children should be raised by such a parent or b) the influence of a male in their lives. This is not to mention that fact that sometimes a male influence can be shitty or that an opposite-gender influence can be sought through grandparents, friends, aunts, uncles, teachers, etc. Some of my most formidable male influences came in the form of uncles and older cousins, not from my father.

A gay couple raising a child can presumably provide economic stability in that there are two incomes and they can provide the child with opposite-gender influence just as well and in some cases probably better than heterosexual couples or single parents can.

I've also read several studies that do not find that the sexuality of children (nor anything else really) raised by homosexual parents is affected (i.e. you're not gay because your parents are. The study in the OP was probably a fluke.) Of the things parents influence in their children's lives, the top items studies have found were religious and moral values. So basically the only things parents are really influencing are whether you believe in religion and whether you mind your p's and q's, and homosexual couples vary in these areas only as much as heterosexual couples do.

#49
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Wait, this is actually still a topic that's debated about?!

FFS, I thought almost everyone had accepted this and moved on years and years ago ... Especially here on GDC, of all places. So disappointed.

#50
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Wait, this is actually still a topic that's debated about?!

FFS, I thought almost everyone had accepted this and moved on years and years ago ... Especially here on GDC, of all places. So disappointed.


Yes, this is still a topic that's debated about. If you'll read the thread, I think you'll find pretty much everyone is in favor of it, we're just discussing the issues raised by the much larger national and international debates on the subject. While homosexuals are still being discriminated against, it'll still be debated :)

#51
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I did look it up. I didn't really understand it though. It was something about that you can adopt a child as a homosexual but only as one person. Not as a couple http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


Weird. =/

#52
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Part of growing up involves influences from a feminine and masculine viewpoint. By giving a child only one of these, they miss a crucial viewpoint and influence on their life.

Explain. Please tell me why imposing gender roles is essential.
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#53
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Yes, people do have the right to raise children, unless these rights are relinquished by abuse or neglect of those children, which is not unlike how any crime works, certain rights could be lost in the event that they break the law. But raising children is basically the same kind of right as living where you want to and wearing what you want to, it is an uninfringed upon right in normal cases. You don't see anyone interfering with heterosexual birthing of children, regardless of the background or competency of the heterosexual couple (once again, barring the exception of legal violations).


This is where I disagree with you. I don't think everyone has the right to raise children.... but that's a whole different debate entirely. :P

#54
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Wait, this is actually still a topic that's debated about?!

FFS, I thought almost everyone had accepted this and moved on years and years ago ... Especially here on GDC, of all places. So disappointed.


It's not about whether it's accepted on GDC or not.... the world has bigger issues than just in here. It's something that needs to be talked about....

#55
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Yes, this is still a topic that's debated about. If you'll read the thread, I think you'll find pretty much everyone is in favor of it, we're just discussing the issues raised by the much larger national and international debates on the subject. While homosexuals are still being discriminated against, it'll still be debated http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

Because if we let ourselves think that we're right "because we are", when it's time to actually voice these opinions we find ourselves batted down by forceful opinion and skewed logic. Being comfortable in the majority is never a good thing I don't think.

#56
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Explain. Please tell me why imposing gender roles is essential.

Thank you, I was about to post this. Gender roles (should) have nothing to do with how you raise children. Teach children that they can be who and however they want.


#57
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Thank you, I was about to post this. Gender roles (should) have nothing to do with how you raise children. Teach children that they can be who and however they want.


Don't you think there should be an initial structure and then allow the kid freedom if it rejects it?

#58
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Don't you think there should be an initial structure and then allow the kid freedom if it rejects it?


Structure, yes. But not gender-role based structure.

#59
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Structure, yes. But not gender-role based structure.


So does this basically mean that we shouldn't let boys play with trucks and girls with dolls? We should give them the choice at two years old? How can you make a choice at that age??

#60
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So does this basically mean that we shouldn't let boys play with trucks and girls with dolls? We should give them the choice at two years old? How can you make a choice at that age??


Just put all the toys in front of them and whatever they take, they take. I don't mean parents should buy a "my barbie dream house" and a GI Joe Monster truck action figure thingy and put them in front of every kid. But on the other hand, I remember back in preschool when teachers would actually prod kids into gender roles by telling boys and girls they were 'in the wrong place' if they were at the play stations meant for each gender.

Also, pretty sure in toddler days, before they are really old enough to start developing preferences, most kids have ambiguous things like teddy bears anyway.



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