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Kurt Cobain's Death

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#1
MrsBillieJoe95

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I'm not sure if this should be in general chat/other bands or should be merged into the conspiracy theories thread already started, but feel free to move this if you think it's misplaced :) [personally, idt it should be merged since the conspiracy theories thread is more of a broad thread for any sort and this is a specific "conspiracy" topic, but everyone's opinion is different]

Ok, we all know about Nirvana's late singer Kurt Cobain and his death. The official ruling was that his death was caused by a self-inflicted shot to the underneath of his chin. Others (including me) believe that this ruling is false and that his death was not a suicide.

What is your view on his death? Any particular reason to your opinion?

Like I said, I don't believe that his death was a suicide.
I don't appreciate people saying that the "murder" idea is just another stupid conspiracy made up by people who just don't want to believe that he committed suicide. I'm actually one of those people who have done a lot of research on this subject and believe that his death was not suicide because of the things I've read.

The very first time I heard about his death, I decided to look into it because of a friend on my FB. They posted a copy of the note left behind at the death scene and when I tried to find a text version of it, I stumbled upon http://www.justiceforkurt.com and http://www.kurtcobainssuicidenote.com . From these sites, I found out more information and soon began to think about a statement found on Justice for Kurt. idr off top of my head what the quote was, but it made me think a lot and it got me in the mood to do some research.

I still believe that Courtney had something to do with his death- I'm not necessarily saying that she killed him, but I really think she had something to do with it. There are just a lot of things that don't add up. For example, she was "so concerned" with her husband's well-being, but yet when asked if she's going to go help go look for Kurt, she responded [paraphrased b/c i'm too lazy to find the actual quote] "sorry I can't. I have business in LA to attend to".

Please don't tell me that I'm stupid (or anything like that) for my belief. Like I said, I've actually done my research about this, so I base my beliefs from what information I've read/heard. I hate those who do think they know everything (**disclaimer** I'm not saying I know everything, but I know enough to establish a real opinion). I have no issue what so ever about debating about this, so argue away with me :) :P


this is what the note says that was left behind at the scene [credit: KurtCobainsSuicideNote.com]:

To Boddah
Speaking from the tongue of an experienced simpleton who obviously would rather be an emasculated, infantile complain-ee. This note should be pretty easy to understand.
All the warnings from the punk rock 101 courses over the years, since my first introduction to the, shall we say, ethics involved with independence and the embracement of your community has proven to be very true. I haven't felt the excitement of listening to as well as creating music along with reading and writing for too many years now. I feel guity beyond words about these things.
For example when we're back stage and the lights go out and the manic roar of the crowds begins., it doesn't affect me the way in which it did for Freddie Mercury, who seemed to love, relish in the the love and adoration from the crowd which is something I totally admire and envy. The fact is, I can't fool you, any one of you. It simply isn't fair to you or me. The worst crime I can think of would be to rip people off by faking it and pretending as if I'm having 100% fun. Sometimes I feel as if I should have a punch-in time clock before I walk out on stage. I've tried everything within my power to appreciate it (and I do,God, believe me I do, but it's not enough). I appreciate the fact that I and we have affected and entertained a lot of people. It must be one of those narcissists who only appreciate things when they're gone. I'm too sensitive. I need to be slightly numb in order to regain the enthusiasms I once had as a child.
On our last 3 tours, I've had a much better appreciation for all the people I've known personally, and as fans of our music, but I still can't get over the frustration, the guilt and empathy I have for everyone. There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fucking sad. The sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man. Why don't you just enjoy it? I don't know!
I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become.
I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful, but since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.
Thank you all from the pit of my burning, nauseous stomach for your letters and concern during the past years. I'm too much of an erratic, moody baby! I don't have the passion anymore, and so remember, it's better to burn out than to fade away.
Peace, love, empathy.
Kurt Cobain
Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your alter.
Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me.
I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!



Posted Image
^photocopy of the actual note. Have fun trying to read it if you do lol
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#2
Dylan.

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Everybody goes through phases of obsessing over Kurt's death. He was a super-star that was cut short far before his time. Whether or not his death was an accident, a suicide, or a murder, it was tragic, and his lyrics will forever live on in the hearts of all his fans. Beyond that, I understand the conspiracy and it provides some very interesting cases to be made for his death being something other than the reported COD. However, what is really accomplished by fixating on his demise? The police have kept this case closed for so long a time period, and it was not an open-and-shut case. There was a great deal of investigation that went on as a result and they ruled his death a suicide. I'm as much of a cynic as anyone, but I just don't see how a murder could be overlooked so easily if there was evidence there to analyze.
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#3
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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How does a man who's strung out on all kinds of drugs gather up the coordination to put the barrel of a shotgun in his mouth and slide his big toe into the trigger that's almost two and a half feet away?

He doesn't. But the man his wife hired to get him strung out on drugs and kill him does.
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#4
captain peroxide

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While I'm not casting aspersions on your central thesis (because I agree with you, although I've not done enough research of my own), being "too lazy" to source your evidence makes it very hard for other people to form an opinion based on anything other than what you've said.

I've always thought the note reads more like "I'm retiring from the music business" than it does as a suicide note. The lines at the bottom are not in-keeping with the tone of the rest of it, and it doesn't look like the same handwriting either. I have no respect for Courtney Love as a human being, which may factor into a bias on my part.
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#5
Zero.

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I love Kurt, Nirvana and everything else related. I spend many of my afternoons lying around on my bed and listening to Nirvana, it's one of my favourite things to do. I hate the fact that Kurt's dead, but I've done enough thinking about this. I'll be honest things don't add up, all the drugs in his system the note... But I think we have just to accept the fact that he killed himself, I don't want to, but I don't think anything will change regarding the case. He broke out of rehab, disappeared for a few days and the next we heard of him he was dead. That's as much as people know, including Dave Grohl.

I do feel as if Courtney had something to do with it, but that's just a feeling of not accepting the fact he could of taken his own life. Anyway it's sad and he was legend, I'm still yet to see a songwriter to write so simply and have such a great affect on the music industry.

RIP Kurt

#6
Alan86

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I've read the book "who killed Kurt Cobain" which is all about the suspicious circumstances of kurts death and for years i too felt something is not quite right with the official report. But as years pass by I feel myself accepting the official report more. Kurt was a very depressed man towards the end, and he had tried killing himself just months before. There are inconsisstancies in the official report but I'm sure these could be explained if they really had to be. It's like any other conspiracy theory really, it's just a theory. I now find most conspiracy theories to be false but they do make you think and question certain things.

#7
MrsBillieJoe95

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While I'm not casting aspersions on your central thesis (because I agree with you, although I've not done enough research of my own), being "too lazy" to source your evidence makes it very hard for other people to form an opinion based on anything other than what you've said.

I've always thought the note reads more like "I'm retiring from the music business" than it does as a suicide note. The lines at the bottom are not in-keeping with the tone of the rest of it, and it doesn't look like the same handwriting either. I have no respect for Courtney Love as a human being, which may factor into a bias on my part.


I posted this at like 1am and had to be up at 6:30 so I was being lazy about finding some things lol. I'll have to find all my stuff after I get back from school because they have this and JFK (lol jfk) blocked at school, so that makes it kinda difficult to post on here :lol:

After reading on JFK that someone else thought that his letter was more of a retiring letter, I thought that made sense, so i totally agree with your whole second statement :) I can't stand Courtney. She's just rude (i.e the Dave Grohl incident) and thinks she's all that.

I found my quote that I was too lazy to find earlier lol.
"After studying the note, Grant believes that it was actually a letter written by Cobain announcing his intent to leave Courtney Love, Seattle, and the music business. Grant believes that the few lines at the very bottom of the note, separate from the rest of it, are the only parts that sound like a suicide note. He believes that those lines are written in a style that varies from the rest of the letter, suggesting that they were written by someone other than Cobain."

that actually takes care of two birds with one stone lol. That quote made me read the note about 3 or 4 times which eventually lead to my obsession with this case.

I love Kurt, Nirvana and everything else related. I spend many of my afternoons lying around on my bed and listening to Nirvana, it's one of my favourite things to do. I hate the fact that Kurt's dead, but I've done enough thinking about this. I'll be honest things don't add up, all the drugs in his system the note... But I think we have just to accept the fact that he killed himself, I don't want to, but I don't think anything will change regarding the case. He broke out of rehab, disappeared for a few days and the next we heard of him he was dead. That's as much as people know, including Dave Grohl.

I do feel as if Courtney had something to do with it, but that's just a feeling of not accepting the fact he could of taken his own life. Anyway it's sad and he was legend, I'm still yet to see a songwriter to write so simply and have such a great affect on the music industry.

RIP Kurt


that's just one of those things I will never accept. I just can't- not after doing some investigation of my own at least. I must point out though that he was seen ~a week before being found dead by his friend Dylan something (not enough time to find this stuff- school) and he told Courtney and she never mentioned it to the police or anything, so that much at least could have been changed.

I've read the book "who killed Kurt Cobain" which is all about the suspicious circumstances of kurts death and for years i too felt something is not quite right with the official report. But as years pass by I feel myself accepting the official report more. Kurt was a very depressed man towards the end, and he had tried killing himself just months before. There are inconsisstancies in the official report but I'm sure these could be explained if they really had to be. It's like any other conspiracy theory really, it's just a theory. I now find most conspiracy theories to be false but they do make you think and question certain things.


very sorry but i don't have time at the moment to properly reply. shall do it after school :) just acknowledging your post to let you know I read it lol
[edit] I have returned from school and now have the time to properly reply :P

I've wanted to read that book for a while now. I also want to buy the "Cobain Cast Study Manual" from Tom Grant :D
I do think it would be likely (considering his past) that Kurt would have committed suicide at some point in his life, but I really don't believe this was one time.
I disagree that he attempted suicide a few months before (I believe that's the 'Rome incident' you're referring to). I believe that was a set up. Kurt wasn't drinking alcohol and him taking pills wasn't very logical. He was planning on leaving Courtney and taking any money they had on them, so why would he write a note stating that he was leaving and taking all their money to get away from her and then take pills? if you want to read up on it more, here's a link to some info. on it :P http://www.justicefo..._incident.shtml I really love the JFK site, so I suggest if you want to learn more on the case :D

Edited by MrsBillieJoe95, 09 January 2012 - 03:50 PM.

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#8
Tre's Lost Testicle

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Ok, heres what I have to say about it.... First of all, Courtney Love hired a personal investigator to try and find Kurt when he had escaped rehab, and even the P.I said that it was a murder, secondly Kurt had a high enough amount of heroine in his system that would paralyze him, and kill him in the process... The guns barrel was also to long for Kurt to have done it himself, so it had to have been by someone else... Could've been Love, you never know... Either way, Kurt brought us all wonderful, and life changing music. And he will be forever missed... He was a big inspiration to me, and his music has changed my live... Wherever his soul is now, i hope he can rest without feeling all the physical and mental pain that he had to endure in his life on earth.
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#9
MrsBillieJoe95

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Ok, heres what I have to say about it.... First of all, Courtney Love hired a personal investigator to try and find Kurt when he had escaped rehab, and even the P.I said that it was a murder, secondly Kurt had a high enough amount of heroine in his system that would paralyze him, and kill him in the process... The guns barrel was also to long for Kurt to have done it himself, so it had to have been by someone else... Could've been Love, you never know... Either way, Kurt brought us all wonderful, and life changing music. And he will be forever missed... He was a big inspiration to me, and his music has changed my live... Wherever his soul is now, i hope he can rest without feeling all the physical and mental pain that he had to endure in his life on earth.


amen to that :) All of these reasons (plus some) are why I don't believe in the suicide ruling!
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as awesome as it is for there to be more than two people on here to believe that his death was not a suicide, is there anyone on here that believes it really was a suicide?

#10
Hermione

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amen to that http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... All of these reasons (plus some) are why I don't believe in the suicide ruling!
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as awesome as it is for there to be more than two people on here to believe that his death was not a suicide, is there anyone on here that believes it really was a suicide?

I'm sure the vast majority of people on here accept that he committed suicide, just as the vast majority of people in the world do. To be honest it's probably mostly only the people who think he didn't who are going to be interested in talking about it. Sadly a talented but troubled man killed himself 18 years ago.....there just isn't much to discuss.

#11
MrsBillieJoe95

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I'm sure the vast majority of people on here accept that he committed suicide, just as the vast majority of people in the world do. To be honest it's probably mostly only the people who think he didn't who are going to be interested in talking about it. Sadly a talented but troubled man killed himself 18 years ago.....there just isn't much to discuss.


I think there's actually a lot to discuss. You just have to find the right crowd of people :P Just from your comment of "sadly a talented but troubled man killed himself 18 years ago", I'm sure a lot of people (such as myself) could debate for hours or so :lol:

I had a huge debate with people on FB about a year ago about whether it was suicide or murder that went on for about 2 or so days, but like I said, you just have to find the right crowd of people.

#12
pasalaska

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to add another perspective - read number 4:

http://www.cracked.c...make-sense.html
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#13
MrsBillieJoe95

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to add another perspective - read number 4:

http://www.cracked.c...make-sense.html


that's quite interesting! I've never heard this theory before. I've read in a couple different places about how his scoliosis was causing his stomach pains, but never heard that him playing left handed could have worsened it :blink: thank you for that :) :happy:
-------------------------------
I think if anything, the heroine would have killed him overtime (especially considering he used it probably daily, if not more depending on his pain levels). I'm kind of surprised that doctors never mentioned this to him (that I'm aware of at least).

I understand he went through enough pain to want to just end it all right then and there, but it would still be physically impossible for him to take as much heroine that he did (at the time before his death at least) and not either be dead right then and there or at the very least paralyzed. Everything was put away nice and neat in the greenhouse (where he died) and if he injected 3X's the lethal dosage of heroine in himself, he couldn't have had time to remove the needle from his arm, put it away, get the shotgun, load it (assuming it wasn't loaded prior), and then kill himself.
They did a test that was very flawed when trying to see if someone could take that much heroine and survive. They used a drug similar to heroine (idr right off top of my head what it's called), but instead of putting it into the test subject's body intravenously, they gave him a pill (i believe). They then turned around and said "see, totally possible!" while everyone else with common sense and knowledge of either drug (i barely qualify for the common sense one :lol:) said "no, no, no! your test, good sir, is flawed!". Most anyone in high school+ will tell you that drugs taken via oral take longer to enter someone's blood stream, therefore the effects are not nearly as (for lack of a better word) dramatic as if injected via intravenously, which again, almost anyone HS+ will tell you that it's going to have a greater and faster effect. anyone who says so otherwise lacks common sense and should probably be slapped
^ none of this is an attempt to call anyone stupid for not knowing, nor is it meant to be taken as you have no knowledge of the situation :)

#14
Zero.

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that's just one of those things I will never accept. I just can't- not after doing some investigation of my own at least. I must point out though that he was seen ~a week before being found dead by his friend Dylan something (not enough time to find this stuff- school) and he told Courtney and she never mentioned it to the police or anything, so that much at least could have been changed.


That's fine, but just don't get yourself too caught up, because I don't think that much will change unfortunately. But of course there is a curiosity of wanting to know what's actually true and what's not. Just some of those websites annoy me, this may seem harsh but I'm just making a general statement, but I just wish we can leave the poor man to be dead, if you know what I mean? Oh well... But good luck
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#15
MrsBillieJoe95

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That's fine, but just don't get yourself too caught up, because I don't think that much will change unfortunately. But of course there is a curiosity of wanting to know what's actually true and what's not. Just some of those websites annoy me, this may seem harsh but I'm just making a general statement, but I just wish we can leave the poor man to be dead, if you know what I mean? Oh well... But good luck


i understand what you mean :) I think that it there was something more to his death though that he at least deserves to be dead for the right reasons :P
I never get too caught up in this kinda stuff (even though it seems like it) but when I'm on a roll (no self control), I'll keep going with it til someone either shuts me down or i die off xDD
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Artificial Idiot

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There is a lot of evidence proving a murder rather than a suicide. No one wants to reopen this case because of a. it's not important cause Kurt's been dead for 18 years, b. people think that it is better to sweep this kind of stuff under the rug and c. there is no new evidence. I think as long as there are people keeping his legacy alive that it's something that we all need to come to peace with even if it's wrong or right.

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I've been a Nirvana fan since I was young and at first I thought the murder thing was silly, but then as I read the books I saw that it could be possible. At this point I don't know what to believe, but all I know is he's gone and he's missed. Whatever happened it's tragic either way. I don't rule out either theory, but murder does seem possible.

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How does a man who's strung out on all kinds of drugs gather up the coordination to put the barrel of a shotgun in his mouth and slide his big toe into the trigger that's almost two and a half feet away?

He doesn't. But the man his wife hired to get him strung out on drugs and kill him does.

that sums it up perfectly, and is my theory as well. Not necessarily saying it was Courtney, but it definatly wasn't Kurt.
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