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US Defense Bill Would Allow for Indefinitely Detaining Citizens

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#1
Penguin Puffball

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http://www.forbes.co...americans-face/
http://www.ukprogres...ticle16137.html


I find this ridiculous. Have any of you heard of this? What are your thoughts?

#2
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

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I think it is absolutely ridiculous.

It's also, partially, a sign that the terrorists have won, because apparently the fear of terror is so ingrained in Americans' minds (that is, the Americans who wrote up this bill and those who agree with ti), they're willing to pass bills like this which have the potential to terrorize their own citizens. Not to mention that being able to detain people for life and use "enhanced interrogation techniques" on them without any proof of guilt is, well, ridiculous.

And this, which I quoted from the second article:
"This bill potentially allows for the blatant political prosecutions of any dissenter using the military as a bully club to instill deep fear in any who dare to question our government’s motives."
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#3
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Especially the fact that they can just kill us off whenever they damn well please. What the actual fuck.

#4
uhleckseee

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I saw this on Reddit and couldn't fucking believe it. This country's government has become too powerful...we have LET it become too powerful with our fear. I haven't watched the video you posted yet (I'm on campus), but I definitely will.

#5
fukingcounterstrike

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Dammit Obama :mad:
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#6
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Wow, is it for real? This all sounds like a plot for some kind of future dystopian novel to me.

#7
Boston

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I'm so ready for the world to become like V for Vendetta.
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#8
bloodsexbooze31

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This Anonymous guy is just a bunch of bullcrap. The way the video's are made should be a hint that its just a theatrical ploy to try and get people railed up. Actually look over the bill, the part being referred to is that the government has right to arrest and detain anyone believed to be involved with any act of terrorism and if believed to be a serious threat to the people of our nation, take them out. None of this can be done without being investigated and passed by many officials. Anyone who believes this is a government plot to kill off citizens should go hangout with the Kennedy and 911 conspirators

Edited by bloodsexbooze31, 07 December 2011 - 03:51 PM.


#9
Penguin Puffball

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That's why I added the two other articles; I knew people weren't going to be too crazy about trusting some propaganda video coming from a source like Anonymous.
Either way though, who the hell is the government to decide who is and isn't a terrorist?

#10
Satan

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yes, the bill passed.

no, nothing major is is going to happen.

They have the right to arrest you without any good reason, but the amount of public backlash that would occur if they exercised this right would be unbelievable.

#11
bloodsexbooze31

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who the hell is the government to decide who is and isn't a terrorist?


The people i trust to do it haha, if not them then who? They do many things that we never hear about and members of the military sacrifice their lives without us even knowing to make sure we stay safe. Some of the things they do may be questionable but when it come's down to it it's better if we just don't know about it and go on living the lives we should be thankful to have.

#12
chewychorizo

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Isn't this just like the law that passed in the UK like a decade ago? No-one thought it was a good idea, in fact I don't even think it passed because the House of Lords rejected it. They were wanting to retain people that were suspected terrorists and keep them for up to 90 days without a lawyer or without a trial. Ridiculous.

#13
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The people i trust to do it haha, if not them then who? They do many things that we never hear about and members of the military sacrifice their lives without us even knowing to make sure we stay safe. Some of the things they do may be questionable but when it come's down to it it's better if we just don't know about it and go on living the lives we should be thankful to have.


My argument against them deciding who is and isn't a terrorist is the fact that you can't just look at someone and decide they're a terrorist based on how they look. It's ethnocentrism at it's finest.

#14
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is it bad that my first reaction to this was 'there's already an abortion thread, guys'?
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#15
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My argument against them deciding who is and isn't a terrorist is the fact that you can't just look at someone and decide they're a terrorist based on how they look. It's ethnocentrism at it's finest.


You mean wires coming out of a backpack is not a clue?
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#16
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You mean wires coming out of a backpack is not a clue?

It could be, but it's not always the case. I meant looking at someone who's wearing a turban and deciding "Oh, they're gonna blow up this place, let's capture/kill them". That's how I interpreted this, anyway.

#17
bloodsexbooze31

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My argument against them deciding who is and isn't a terrorist is the fact that you can't just look at someone and decide they're a terrorist based on how they look. It's ethnocentrism at it's finest.


Alot of time and man power goes into investigations, you seriously dont think they just pick random people off the streets do you?

#18
Amanda

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It could be, but it's not always the case. I meant looking at someone who's wearing a turban and deciding "Oh, they're gonna blow up this place, let's capture/kill them". That's how I interpreted this, anyway.


I have a good friend who lives in Texas. He's a tall bloke who sometimes wears a stetson.
He's also a muslim, but I guess he's safe if Big Brother is out there looking for sikhs.

#19
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

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Alot of time and man power goes into investigations, you seriously dont think they just pick random people off the streets do you?

No, they won't just go picking random people off the streets, but they could if they wanted to, with this bill.

#20
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Oh Come ON!

the american government shall NEVER pick up someone without reason. even the most blind, paranoid and stupid politician knows that that is against human rights, against the laws and could cause revolution...
Anonymous are a bunch of 13-yo faggots that think they have the world power by pretending to be a successful hacker group.

#21
Amanda

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Oh Come ON!

the american government shall NEVER pick up someone without reason. even the most blind, paranoid and stupid politician knows that that is against human rights, against the laws and could cause revolution...


The only thing likely to cause a revolution in America is McDonalds reducing the size of a Big Mac.
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#22
Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

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I'm not saying they will pick up random people, just that this bill technically allows them to do so, because "no proof of wrongdoing is required".
edit: and as John said, they can pick up people they want off the streets without need for proof.

#23
Trotsky

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This Anonymous guy is just a bunch of bullcrap. The way the video's are made should be a hint that its just a theatrical ploy to try and get people railed up. Actually look over the bill, the part being referred to is that the government has right to arrest and detain anyone believed to be involved with any act of terrorism and if believed to be a serious threat to the people of our nation, take them out. None of this can be done without being investigated and passed by many officials. Anyone who believes this is a government plot to kill off citizens should go hangout with the Kennedy and 911 conspirators


Does this bill lead automatically to the arrest of any dissenter? No, of course not. But it sets a bad precedent, it doesn't take more than a generation for something previously unacceptable to become the norm.

Ever heard of Sami Al-Arian? The government deemed him to be a serious threat because he gave charitable donations and support to Palestinian organizations, and jailed him for it. Luckily for him he had at least had a trial in which juries did not convict him on the more significant charges, but for people like him, this bill throws the trial out the window.

Also, Kennedy conspirators, really? Do you even know jack shit about the Kennedy assassination? It's not like some alien conspiracy theory circulated among fringe elements, the United States Congressional investigation on the assassination deemed it was a conspiracy. That Oswald was a lone gunman is a fringe idea, not the other way around. Virtually no credible experts actually believe Oswald shot Kennedy for personal motivation alone.


The people i trust to do it haha, if not them then who? They do many things that we never hear about and members of the military sacrifice their lives without us even knowing to make sure we stay safe. Some of the things they do may be questionable but when it come's down to it it's better if we just don't know about it and go on living the lives we should be thankful to have.


We should be grateful to not be killed by terrorists at any given moment? We should accept massive deception because we would theoretically be happier not knowing? Really?


Alot of time and man power goes into investigations, you seriously dont think they just pick random people off the streets do you?


No, they pick the people who they specifically want to get off the streets. What's your point?

COINTELPRO spent a lot of time and manpower investigating "dangerous" people like Martin Luther King Jr. Nice going there.

Oh Come ON!

the american government shall NEVER pick up someone without reason. even the most blind, paranoid and stupid politician knows that that is against human rights, against the laws and could cause revolution...
Anonymous are a bunch of 13-yo faggots that think they have the world power by pretending to be a successful hacker group.


Yeah, the average 13 year old is an expert at massively organized DDoS attacks and hacking of sites that pay tens of thousands of dollars in security each year.
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#24
Juliette

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Pretty sure people arrested with no real reason quite often. Half the people in Guantanamo were arrested with no evidence of them actually having done anything and are still being held there despite there being no proof of them commiting any crimes.

#25
uhleckseee

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Dammit Obama http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

Before you go criticize Obama, he did NOTHING on this. This is SENATE, not the Executive Branch. Obama has said that he will veto this bill if it gets to him, BUT Congress does have the right to overturn that veto. Obama is on our side on this one, it has nothing to do with him. People constantly criticize him on these major issues when it's the other branches of government pulling this shit off. It's fucking ridiculous.

Moral of the story: Do some research first before you criticize him. He is just the face of our government right now. If it were Bush, people would blame him. Hell, if it were CLINTON, people would blame him. This didn't come from the President. That's one man. One man can NOT make something a law, it's the entire government in control of this. And it's gone too far; they're too powerful.
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#26
bollard_11

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I'm so ready for the world to become like V for Vendetta.

I dont want to live in a world with a bald Natalie Portman!! . . . . . . again . . . . . .
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#27
fukingcounterstrike

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Before you go criticize Obama, he did NOTHING on this. This is SENATE, not the Executive Branch. Obama has said that he will veto this bill if it gets to him, BUT Congress does have the right to overturn that veto. Obama is on our side on this one, it has nothing to do with him. People constantly criticize him on these major issues when it's the other branches of government pulling this shit off. It's fucking ridiculous.

Moral of the story: Do some research first before you criticize him. He is just the face of our government right now. If it were Bush, people would blame him. Hell, if it were CLINTON, people would blame him. This didn't come from the President. That's one man. One man can NOT make something a law, it's the entire government in control of this. And it's gone too far; they're too powerful.

I just purely like to blame Obama for everything thing though :P
If a get a flat tire "Goddammit Obama!!!"
It's a fun bandwagon :happy:
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#28
Penguin Puffball

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Well, John McCain was behind this. So it doesn't surprise me that this is completely asinine.
At any rate, this is probably the biggest attack I've ever seen America set upon its own citizens.

#29
Trotsky

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Well, John McCain was behind this. So it doesn't surprise me that this is completely asinine.
At any rate, this is probably the biggest attack I've ever seen America set upon its own citizens.


As far as I'm concerned, McCain's wishy washy appeasement, prostituting himself to the tea party in the last election, and sponsorship of bills like this wholly negate any respect he may deserve as a war hero. The man should have taken the cue from the primary challenge last election and retired, though I suspect now he will die in his Senate seat.
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#30
Penguin Puffball

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As far as I'm concerned, McCain's wishy washy appeasement, prostituting himself to the tea party in the last election, and sponsorship of bills like this wholly negate any respect he may deserve as a war hero. The man should have taken the cue from the primary challenge last election and retired, though I suspect now he will die in his Senate seat.

I think that's everyone's stance on him :lol:



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