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Abortion

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#31 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:48 PM

Abortion is actually one of safest medical procedures there is. Having more than one abortion is not a health hazard

If not physical then mental.

#32 Boston

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:49 PM

I believe abortion should be allowed under any circumstances in the first and second trimester, I also think it is a medical procedure which should be free and available under a universal healthcare system as all medical procedures should be in a civilized country. I also believe late term abortions with a doctor's approval and a valid medical reason should be allowed. I support the availability of abortion to minors without parental notification or permission. 100% pro-choice.

I am also against calling the anti-choice side "pro-life" since it's a stupid and inaccurate euphemism, even if fetuses were to be considered living human beings, their agenda does nothing to actually prevent abortion from occurring and they are decidedly against the welfare of women, because their agenda would result in unsafe abortions and poor health conditions. Further, I believe those who participate in acts of violence against abortion providers should be rightfully regarded as terrorists and treated as such in criminal courts.



#33 Rancid punk:LTD

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:49 PM

I'm for sure pro-choice, I put myself in those shoes when asked about it and would be pissed if I wasn't allowed to because someone thought it was wrong. If I had a baby I didn't want I'd FIND a way to get rid of it(fall down the stairs, punch in the stomach, and so on.) I had a friend ask me about it when I was 17 when I gave my answer she told me to get out of her car, I walked 4 miles home. If you're against it that's fine, don't have one, but you have no right telling a woman she can't make that choice. It's her choice and her's alone.

#34 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:50 PM


Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, so please stop slut-shaming. Accidents happen. Who are you to deny these pregnant women access to health care they have every right to?

she was targeting the ones that don't know what contraception is or refuse to use it. that's the only reason you'd skip to the clinic every other week for your 40953045th abortion.

#35 Armageddon Flame.

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:52 PM

My class was shown one of those horrible pro-life videos as well. I regret not leaving the class room in protest =/

#36 HeißblütigerPinguin

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:58 PM

If not physical then mental.

Actually, there are studies who have proven that there is no such thing as a negative impact on mental health because of abortion

#37 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:00 PM

Actually, there are studies who have proven that there is no such thing as a negative impact on mental health because of abortion

utter bullshit.
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#38 HeißblütigerPinguin

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:11 PM


Well, the person who doesn't know what contraception is: don't critise her having an abortion, critisise society that didn't teach her.

The person who refuses to use is does not exist, at least if she had an abortion before. It's a medical procedure and it costs about 400-500. condoms, while still being somewhat pricey, are definitely a lower cost.

Even if, these women still need access to medial treatment. It shouldn't matter why

utter bullshit.

You want proof? That UN report someone mentioned before, specifically states that there is a documented "[impact on mental health of seeking an illegal abortionvor carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, while there is no corresponding evidence that supports the existence of long-term mental health sequelae from elective abortion]"
It's on page 11 of the report you can google it "Right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health"

There are also studies who prove that post abortion mental illness is a hoax, but I'm on my iPod so I can't search for the links right now

#39 colour_me_stupid_

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:14 PM

I went to a roman catholic school, and this was a major topic in RE (Religion Studies). I got suspended for being the only one in my class who didn't disagree with abortion http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... They even showed the 'abortion video' to 14/15 year olds but only if parents consented. The video was nothing but brainwash tripe. I quote - "This girl is 14 and about to get an abortion, if we freeze frame here, we can see the baby screaming, would you want your unborn child to scream, to feel pain like this?"

My class was shown one of those horrible pro-life videos as well. I regret not leaving the class room in protest http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


I've been subjected to similar shit, and I also regret not walking out and telling them to shove their propaganda up their ass.
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#40 MrsBillieJoe95

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:17 PM

I love this debate as much as "Gay" marriage debates!

I think that if you think you're responsible enough to have sex (regardless of whether it was protected sex or not), then you must think that you're responsible enough for a kid- even if you don't think you're ready for one. If you're not ready for a kid, then don't have sex or take more steps to make sure it doesn't happen. Accidents happen, condoms break, and kids come about.

This is one of those topics though that my view can be kinda confusing to others if I don't explain it right. I think nobody should ever have abortions. How would you feel if your parents thought you were the biggest mistake in their life and didn't want you so much that they just cut off your life before it even began; however- if there was a circumstance of which was brought upon you, such as rape, that caused you to become pregnant without you willingly having sex, then maybe an abortion is acceptable.
If you're like 12 and get raped, causing you to become pregnant, then an abortion is going to be the most acceptable thing. If you're old enough that your body can handle carrying a baby, then an abortion is out of the question, unless carrying the baby could mean death for the mother. Carry the baby until it's born and find a home for it elsewhere that it can be cared for and raised.

this is just my opinion though :P
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#41 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:19 PM

Well, the person who doesn't know what contraception is: don't critise her having an abortion, critisise society that didn't teach her.

The person who refuses to use is does not exist, at least if she had an abortion before. It's a medical procedure and it costs about 400-500. condoms, while still being somewhat pricey, are definitely a lower cost.

Even if, these women still need access to medial treatment. It shouldn't matter why

depends entirely on the society. in yours and mine, the woman is to blame. information is out there and readily available, as is contraception. If she's having multiple abortions she's either extremely unlucky or extremely careless, and I know what my money would be on 90% of the time.


You want proof? That UN report someone mentioned before, specifically states that there is a documented "[impact on mental health of seeking an illegal abortionvor carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, while there is no corresponding evidence that supports the existence of long-term mental health sequelae from elective abortion]"
It's on page 11 of the report you can google it "Right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health"

There are also studies who prove that post abortion mental illness is a hoax, but I'm on my iPod so I can't search for the links right now

That's because you're trying to label everything. Since in this day and age, feeling a bit sad from time to time = chronic depression and needs to be treated with heavy medication.

I want to see the woman that's had an abortion and hasn't thought twice about it since. Who hasn't had it play on her emotions from time to time. She doesn't exist, I'm betting.

#42 Amanda

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:20 PM

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How would you feel if your parents thought you were the biggest mistake in their life and didn't want you so much that they just cut off your life before it even began.


If that happened you wouldn't feel anything, because you would have never existed.
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#43 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:21 PM

I think that if you think you're responsible enough to have sex (regardless of whether it was protected sex or not), then you must think that you're responsible enough for a kid- even if you don't think you're ready for one.

except not at all? sex is sex. a child is an entire human life. I think the argument that every couple having sex is automatically assenting to raising a new child is kinda warped to be honest.
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#44 colour_me_stupid_

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:23 PM

I love this debate as much as "Gay" marriage debates!

I think that if you think you're responsible enough to have sex (regardless of whether it was protected sex or not), then you must think that you're responsible enough for a kid- even if you don't think you're ready for one. If you're not ready for a kid, then don't have sex or take more steps to make sure it doesn't happen. Accidents happen, condoms break, and kids come about.

This is one of those topics though that my view can be kinda confusing to others if I don't explain it right. I think nobody should ever have abortions. How would you feel if your parents thought you were the biggest mistake in their life and didn't want you so much that they just cut off your life before it even began; however- if there was a circumstance of which was brought upon you, such as rape, that caused you to become pregnant without you willingly having sex, then maybe an abortion is acceptable.
If you're like 12 and get raped, causing you to become pregnant, then an abortion is going to be the most acceptable thing. If you're old enough that your body can handle carrying a baby, then an abortion is out of the question, unless carrying the baby could mean death for the mother. Carry the baby until it's born and find a home for it elsewhere that it can be cared for and raised.

this is just my opinion though http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


No. Not a chance! If I get raped and get pregnant as a result, I'd have no intention whatsoever of spending 9 months of life with some creep's baby inside me. I'd have no intention of spending who knows how long in a hospital pushing a baby outta my vagina, all the while in serious amounts of pain. And I'd certainly have no notion of spending the rest of my life knowing that there is a living, breathing reminder of something terrible that happened to me out there.

I don't want to sound mean, and you are most certainly entitled to your opinion :) I just completely disagree with it =/ But sure, that's what debate is for
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#45 beejeezee

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:26 PM

Support. There are to many babies in the world.
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#46 Floyd Pinkerton

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:32 PM

C'mon, really?

You know what I mean.

Abortion is actually one of safest medical procedures there is. Having more than one abortion is not a health hazard

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, so please stop slut-shaming. Accidents happen. Who are you to deny these pregnant women access to health care they have every right to?

I'm not slut shaming. I'm shaming the people who KNOW the risks of having unprotected sex and continue to do it anyway, and they treat pregnancy/abortion like an everyday event. I'm also not saying I know of anyone like this, I'm just saying this hypothetically.

#47 americanidiot812

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:34 PM

Abortion is never okay. Not in cases of rape, not in cases where the mother is dying, not in any circumstance. From conception on, an embryo is a living human being with a soul of its own. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder of a human. People always say "Well, what if it was rape and not their choice?" Then I'm sorry. Put it up for adoption if you like. In cases where the mother may die, I say the baby should be saved. The mother has had a taste of life, the baby has not. Any mother with a shred of care for their child would die for them.
Pro-life all the way.

#48 Floyd Pinkerton

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:35 PM

Actually, there are studies who have proven that there is no such thing as a negative impact on mental health because of abortion

Bullshit. No study can go saying it's "proven" that inevery single case, no negative mental effects come from abortion.

#49 americanidiot812

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:36 PM

If that happened you wouldn't feel anything, because you would have never existed.


1.) Embryos do feel pain even at early stages.
2.) A human is a human from conception onwards.

#50 colour_me_stupid_

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:37 PM

Abortion is never okay. Not in cases of rape, not in cases where the mother is dying, not in any circumstance. From conception on, an embryo is a living human being with a soul of its own. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder of a human. People always say "Well, what if it was rape and not their choice?" Then I'm sorry. Put it up for adoption if you like. In cases where the mother may die, I say the baby should be saved. The mother has had a taste of life, the baby has not. Any mother with a shred of care for their child would die for them.
Pro-life all the way.


Just.... no.

*pulls hair out*


1.) Embryos do feel pain even at early stages.


Proof?

#51 Satan

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:37 PM


How would you feel if your parents thought you were the biggest mistake in their life and didn't want you so much that they just cut off your life before it even began


first of all, i wouldn't feel anything. Second of all, it's a lot worse to be born in a broken home, to parents who don't love you then to have never lived at all.
and who knows, that kid who would have been an abortion might commit suicide one day because of complications in their life due to their parents not being ready for kids. How would that be any better?

____


a lot of people think life is sacred and stuff... bullshit. Life is just what happens when 2 people have sex, there's nothing sacred about it. I know that sounds harsh, but if we put away emotions for a minute and think about this logically, that's basically what it is.
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#52 Floyd Pinkerton

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:41 PM

Abortion is never okay. Not in cases of rape, not in cases where the mother is dying, not in any circumstance. From conception on, an embryo is a living human being with a soul of its own. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder of a human. People always say "Well, what if it was rape and not their choice?" Then I'm sorry. Put it up for adoption if you like. In cases where the mother may die, I say the baby should be saved. The mother has had a taste of life, the baby has not. Any mother with a shred of care for their child would die for them.
Pro-life all the way.

A mere zygote does not equal a human being. It's not a human until it can function on its own without the mother. So, up until about the 8th month, it's not a person, it does not have a soul. I'm not 100% pro-choice, but your argument just slightly irks me.

#53 fiercecircus

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:41 PM

If that happened you wouldn't feel anything, because you would have never existed.


There are days i wish my parents had aborted me. Honestly- i would have never existed so whatever. (but i'm like crazy depressed a lot so take that as you will.)

I support the right to abortion 110%. It's necessary, for all the reasons stated previously and more. I have sex, and i use birth control AND sometimes spermicide too as a backup (because i'm neurotically afraid of getting pregnant) but there's always a failure rate for anything. To force someone to have a child that is unwanted is morally wrong- especially for the child. Children deserve better.

Though- i'm aware of the trauma of having an abortion. Sure, it's safe, maybe it doesn't cause anyone any harm BUT that's a huge thing to have on your conscience. It's a huge decision to make, it's not something that you taking lightly. I mean, regardless of what side you're on... you're still making a major decision for yourself and what could be a little person inside you. It's a huge moral dilemma. Plus the social stigma if anyone finds out, walking through the picket lines at the clinic, etc... Don't think that just because i'm pro-choice that i think abortions are a walk in the park. I would be terrified if I were in that position.

I believe that abortions should be 100% legal, safe for the patient(s), and easy to get... but i don't ever want to be in the position where i need one.
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#54 Amanda

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:41 PM

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1.) Embryos do feel pain even at early stages.
2.) A human is a human from conception onwards.


I do believe you're totally missing the point.
Keep burying your head in the sand, just like the "pro life" people who think nothing of eating a burger or a hotdog.
Cutting the throat of an animal that lived and breathed is ok, but the removal of a bunch of cells is abhorrent.
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#55 Floyd Pinkerton

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:43 PM

I do believe you're totally missing the point.
Keep burying your head in the sand, just like the "pro life" people who think nothing of eating a burger or a hotdog.
Cutting the throat of an animal that lived and breathed is ok, but the removal of a bunch of cells is abhorrent.

Exactly. I applaude this.

#56 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:46 PM

oh look.

Abortion is never okay. Not in cases of rape, not in cases where the mother is dying, not in any circumstance. From conception on, an embryo is a living human being with a soul of its own. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder of a human. People always say "Well, what if it was rape and not their choice?" Then I'm sorry. Put it up for adoption if you like. In cases where the mother may die, I say the baby should be saved. The mother has had a taste of life, the baby has not. Any mother with a shred of care for their child would die for them.
Pro-life all the way.

-souls are not real

-being a clump of human cells does not qualify being a human life. if that were the case *pulls hair out* murder, right there.

-going by your logic, surely the 'child' that hasn't had a taste of human life wouldn't be saved, because they don't know what they are missing?

-you don't have a uterus do you?
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#57 Daughter.of.Rage.and.Love

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:47 PM

Abortion is never okay. Not in cases of rape, not in cases where the mother is dying, not in any circumstance. From conception on, an embryo is a living human being with a soul of its own. Abortion at any stage of pregnancy is murder of a human. People always say "Well, what if it was rape and not their choice?" Then I'm sorry. Put it up for adoption if you like. In cases where the mother may die, I say the baby should be saved. The mother has had a taste of life, the baby has not. Any mother with a shred of care for their child would die for them.
Pro-life all the way.

I'd like to see you be raped at 16 and have a baby*. Or die for it, which apparently you applaud. Good luck, I hope you have fun along the way.
"Put it up for adoption if you like" - you think an embryo has complex feelings and a soul and is a human being and should be spared at any cost, but you also think that putting a baby up for adoption is an easy decision that you can just do if you like and that the feelings of the mother are of no importance?

Embryos are potential life. They're not life, they can't live, let alone function on their own.


* I don't mean that as a threat or as a suggestion that I want it that you're raped, I just mean it in a "imagine yourself in the situation" kind of way.

#58 Satan

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:48 PM

I do believe you're totally missing the point.
Keep burying your head in the sand, just like the "pro life" people who think nothing of eating a burger or a hotdog.
Cutting the throat of an animal that lived and breathed is ok, but the removal of a bunch of cells is abhorrent.


THANK YOU!
to all you "pro-life" people, unless you don't support war or the death penalty and are vegetarians. i think it's fair to say that you're a hypocrite.
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#59 Kayfabe

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:51 PM


THANK YOU!
to all you "pro-life" people, unless you don't support war or the death penalty and are vegetarians. i think it's fair to say that you're a hypocrite.

not really, it just means they have different standards for those different things.

#60 johndorkian

 
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:53 PM

I think that if you think you're responsible enough to have sex (regardless of whether it was protected sex or not), then you must think that you're responsible enough for a kid- even if you don't think you're ready for one. If you're not ready for a kid, then don't have sex or take more steps to make sure it doesn't happen. Accidents happen, condoms break, and kids come about.

if you've used a condom and it's broke, why should you take responsbility for the fact that you're one of the very very unlucky 3%? that's complete bullshit. if you're not ready for a kid, then you are not ready. i really can't stress that enough. why should that kid have to be raised in a home that isn't "ideal"? or, if the child is given up for adoption, why should the mother have to go through the pain, both emotional and physical, of having a kid growing inside her for nine months - nine - and then having to give that kid away? why the fuck would you put someone through that purely because they were incredibly unlucky in life?
i also think your first point is stupid - i know many teens who are ready for sex (including me, story for another day) - of course they are; people were fucking programmed to have sex in their teens! there's a reason why teenagers are so damn horny. but that does in no way, shape, or form mean that they should be essentially forced to put their body through irreversible changes just because dumbfucks like you took away their options. you don't like abortion? that's fine, don't have one. get the kid adopted or raise it in a shitty home and deal with the consequences, that is entirely on you. but don't ever take away another woman's choice.

as a sidenote: why wouldn't you value an already living person, someone with a job and a family and a life of their own - someone who is entirely alive, in every sense of the word - over a ball of cells incapable of thought? what makes that thing more important than someone with thoughts and feelings? an embryo can't feel pain, it doesn't have a "soul," it will have no idea that it will never exist because, if the mother has an abortion, realistically, it never did. (this isn't aimed at the person i quoted.)
  • Rancid punk:LTD, The brink of your vision and MrsBillieJoe95 like this



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