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Anarchy, where do you stand?

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103 replies to this topic

Poll: Pro or anti (78 member(s) have cast votes)

Pro anarchy?

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#1
Sarcasm

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Anarchy, a lawless state.
Totally free and frank to explore the world as you wish, or a murderous society where the strongest rule with iron fists?

I've often seen punks and other in general emo kids (I'm one myself, or, that's how I view me), and they wear this A with a circle around it.
The symbol of anarchy, but do they know what it means? It seems they don't know how much the the leaders of the country does, or don't appreciate it even they don't know what they really talking about. I stopped wearing buttons with the mark on when I realized it was more than a cool looking "A".

This provokes me, all the spread anarchy bullshit, because the bus costs a dollar to much for the youngsters own liking. They can't even vote, and they're pro lawlessness.
What is GDC's opinion?
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#2
Penguin Puffball

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Anarchy ftw! I'm an anarchist :)

#3
mechanicalman

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I wanna be anarchy.

#4
anarchistgirlscout

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Oddly enough - I'm not an anarchist. Though, once at Girl Scout Day Camp I did lead the children into some form of anarchy when we bucked the daily schedule and did whatever we wanted. That's right - - it's not my time to be on the play structure, but here I am - - what now??

#5
oda

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No definitely not. This would work in a perfect world where everyone had good morals and ethics. But the reality is; humans are selfish. We'll do what we can to make our own lives enjoyable. How is a lawless socitety supposed to work when people in societys with laws and rules still brake them? The punishment itself should make people think twice about their actions, and if there were no punishment what would hold them back?

So yeah, i think it's a cute little dream world believing in the good in all human beings, but this would not work in real life.

#6
Sarcasm

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Anarchy ftw! I'm an anarchist http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

I wanna be anarchy.


Why? Argumentation is strongly recommended when you front a society without law and order.
Or do you just think that A looks cool?

#7
mechanicalman

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I just like the song.

#8
Brigister

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Anarchy is good as an ideal, but it's still a utopia. People needs to be more honest and respectful towards the others to be able to run a well-functioning anarchist society. Most of people is not ready yet.

#9
John.

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First of all, I'd like to ask the OP use the default font from now on.

Now, anyway. Anarchism is not a system without a social order, rather, it is a system without hierarchy. I identify more as a democratic socialist but I believe anarchists are allies in the worldwide struggle against capitalism, so I have nothing against them.

#10
chatnoir

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I'm leaning more towards anarchism than to democratic socialism but I do believe democratic socialists are allies in the worldwide struggle against capitalism, so I have nothing against them. :p

#11
pasalaska

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As with all great concepts, there's always going to be the douchebags of human society that would ruin it for the rest of the people.

As Oda already said, if everyone was a decent, moral human being, it'd be great, but that's in an ideal world and there's no such thing as an ideal world in reality.

#12
Jaymee!!

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I'm not punk enough to have anarchist tendencies or ideologies.

#13
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I stand on the far left.

#14
chatnoir

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Like John said, anarchism is not a system without any social order and rules. Neither is it based on some sentimental idea of every person being good at heart or something. Anarchists are not hippies.

If you agree that freedom is the right to communicate, to live, to be, to go, to love, to do what you will without the impositions of others, then you might be one of us.

If you agree that a person is entitled to the sweat of their brows, that being talented at management should not entitle others to act like overseers and overlords, that all workers should have the right to engage in decisions, democratically, then you might be one of us.

If you agree that freedom for some is not the same as freedom for all, and that freedom for all is the only true freedom, then you might be one of us.

If you agree that power is not right, that life trumps property, then you might be one of us.

If you agree that state and corporation are merely two sides of the same oppressive power structure, if you realize how media distorts things to preserve it, how it pits the people against the people to remain in power, then you might be one of us.


http://occupywallst.org/

#15
captain peroxide

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Anarchy is nice on paper, but no realistic adult could think it would ever work in real life. It's just like communism in that regard.

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#16
beejeezee

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Anarchy is both good and bad. In a perfect world where humans don't see the need to kill each other, rob, steal, and commit other crimes it would be ok. But sadly our world isn't peaceful. We do kill, we do steal, we will go to war. If we lived in an anarchist world everything would go to hell. Woman would be raped left and right. Every drunk idiot would be getting their hands on firearms. It will be even easier for people to get illegal drugs. The human brain is to controlled by greed to live in a lawless world.
If people were a bit smarter, and didn't think that lawless means they can go out and shoot people just because there's no laws now, it might be nice. No laws against gays and lesbians getting married, no illegals. Just a happy peaceful world where all races and all sexuality's can live together without petty laws stopping them. Even then people would find a way to ruin it.

#17
Dylan.

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I, personally, don't think anarchy could ever work. The general consensus is, "It might work in a perfect world." Well, first of all, this is NOT a perfect world, nor does there exist a perfect world. Second of all, even if said perfect world did exist, that is rather subjective to whom you ask. I, for one, am a socialist who supports freedom and democracy for the people. Would anarchy really be perfect for me? I understand the idea that all my socialistic ideals wouldn't be necessary in a perfect world, but does that means that in a perfect world, nobody has any worries whatsoever? Does everybody just lie around and do nothing all day? Is it like some sort of structuralist heaven?
Like John said, anarchy is not a lawless state. Rather, it is the ideal that government should be absent, and unlike communism, where the power is evenly distributed to all people, the power simply is thrown out the window.
I don't hate anarchy. I just find it rather unattainable.

Anarchy is nice on paper, but no realistic adult could think it would ever work in real life. It's just like communism in that regard.

I wouldn't see communism is quite on the same branch as anarchy. In fact, I find real idealistic communism to be rather logical. Karl Marx even wrote that once the power has been taken from the bourgeoisie class and distributed back to the proletariat class, (By power, I mean wealth, property, etc.) the government would no longer need to be oppressive. The federal government would remain active in ensuring that all people were treated equally and that no one was suffering, but remain otherwise silent. True communism has never been achieved however. Most marxists/maoists reject the idea that Soviet Russia or China or North Korea are or ever have been a communist nation. First of all, the Soviets were dictators that clung to power, and attempted to imperialize the rest of the world. Communists don't believe in meddling with others foreign affairs, so they believe that counts Russia out. China is a capitalist country. Automatic disqualification. North Korea is a totalitarian regime that suppresses its people. Most argue that communism would never put the health and life of the people at risk, even for the preservation of power.

Just my two cents. :)

#18
Sarcasm

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I agree with most of the replies so far, but I would like to see those who votes yes to actually stand up and defend their opinion.

As with all great concepts, there's always going to be the douchebags of human society that would ruin it for the rest of the people.
As Oda already said, if everyone was a decent, moral human being, it'd be great, but that's in an ideal world and there's no such thing as an ideal world in reality.

Agreed, you can't just expect people to NOT rape and steal if there is no law or order that can punish you for it.

Anarchy is nice on paper, but no realistic adult could think it would ever work in real life. It's just like communism in that regard.

Communism is led and have strict laws and order where nothing is random and the state is everyone. I would rather say it's the opposite of anarchy than the same.

#19
fukingcounterstrike

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I like chocolate milk

Oh and Alex is basically saying, it's only an Ideal like communism is, pretty much never to be achieved, nothing big to be read into really :p

#20
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Communism is led and have strict laws and order where nothing is random and the state is everyone. I would rather say it's the opposite of anarchy than the same.

Do you know what "in that regard" means? Mark got it right, I just meant communism and anarchism are both fine ideas on paper, but completely unattainable in the real world, not that they're similar ideologies.

#21
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I feel that anarchy is not good :unsure: I believe all human beings are equal and free etc. BUT in a state without laws, everyone would do anything they want and that is terrible, rapists would be free to rape and left unpunished, there would be exploitation... We need a society that can provide solidarity and safety, not a chaos! I feel that most anarchists (with certain exceptions of course) just want to be free to be illegal. So I'm pretty much against anarchy, it wouldn't help the world in any way, it's sort of like fascism, anything that's extreme is no good. Being both lawless and peaceful just can't happen in this world.

I'm not punk enough to have anarchist tendencies or ideologies.


:ninja: I don't like the fact that everyone connects anarchism with punk, anarchism is not good, it's pure chaos (in an ideal world it would work of course but...) and punk is rebelling against stereotypes etc. Idk, that's what I think.

#22
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Why? Argumentation is strongly recommended when you front a society without law and order.
Or do you just think that A looks cool?

I know it would never truly work out in the real world. People would run rampant.
My stance on anarchy is if a group of people came together and didn't have government, they'd have the common sense and decency to still carry on living life in a normal and productive manner. You wouldn't have government fucking you over. No taxes, no ridiculous prices, you'd be free to do as you please. Especially lately, the government has been dicking around and not getting much done in a positive way. I have almost no faith left in society and government. It'd be nice to have a state where idiots aren't in charge and there were no rules.
Unfortunately most people don't have the sense God gave dog shit, so having a peaceful, lawless community would be impossible.

#23
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God, you people are depressing. :p

What is it with young people these days, seriously? Aren't you supposed to be rebelling against old folks and their conservative, lame views of the world? Not the other way around?

"Oh, it's not reasonable, it's utopia, the world doesn't work like that." - How boring! If everyone ever had thought like this, we would still live in caves. So many ideas have been utopian at first: Democracy, equality of men and women, building airplanes, submarines, human beings in space, on the moon, to only name a few. Those changes and achievements didn't happen, because people have been sitting on their asses, not willing to deal with opposition to their ideas.

A lot of you are basically saying, it's not working, because it's too difficult to achieve. So, we shouldn't even try? What kind of lazy attitude is this? Either you find it to be a desirable form of living together in a community or you don't. If you do, you should rather pursue it, than find lame excuses like it wouldn't work, because of "the other people", who are morally weaker than yourself and couldn't handle being without someone who tells them what to do. It's not only a lame excuse, it's also arrogant.

The world is not a perfect place. Oh really, tell me more. Because as an anarchist I was under the impression, I could just sit together with rapists and murderers at a bonfire, sing kumbaya and everything would turn into paradise all of a sudden. :p

#24
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God, you people are depressing. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...

What is it with young people these days, seriously? Aren't you supposed to be rebelling against old folks and their conservative, lame views of the world? Not the other way around?

"Oh, it's not reasonable, it's utopia, the world doesn't work like that." - How boring! If everyone ever had thought like this, we would still live in caves. So many ideas have been utopian at first: Democracy, equality of men and women, building airplanes, submarines, human beings in space, on the moon, to only name a few. Those changes and achievements didn't happen, because people have been sitting on their asses, not willing to deal with opposition to their ideas.

A lot of you are basically saying, it's not working, because it's too difficult to achieve. So, we shouldn't even try? What kind of lazy attitude is this? Either you find it to be a desirable form of living together in a community or you don't. If you do, you should rather pursue it, than find lame excuses like it wouldn't work, because of "the other people", who are morally weaker than yourself and couldn't handle being without someone who tells them what to do. It's not only a lame excuse, it's also arrogant.

The world is not a perfect place. Oh really, tell me more. Because as an anarchist I was under the impression, I could just sit together with rapists and murderers at a bonfire, sing kumbaya and everything would turn into paradise all of a sudden. http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/...


I agree with what you say, we need to be innovative =/ but let's assume that tomorrow, all the governments are brought down and we live in anarchy. What do you think would happen? :sherlock: There are people who won't just live in peace and accept the others unfortunately. Laws are needed, not to make people suffer, only to preserve safety! Freedom is considered freedom till your actions are in the expense of someone else's freedom.

#25
chatnoir

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No definitely not. This would work in a perfect world where everyone had good morals and ethics. But the reality is; humans are selfish. We'll do what we can to make our own lives enjoyable. How is a lawless socitety supposed to work when people in societys with laws and rules still brake them? The punishment itself should make people think twice about their actions, and if there were no punishment what would hold them back?

So yeah, i think it's a cute little dream world believing in the good in all human beings, but this would not work in real life.

Agreed, you can't just expect people to NOT rape and steal if there is no law or order that can punish you for it.

Yeah, right, because the law is the only thing that keeps me from raping and killing people.

Why? Argumentation is strongly recommended when you front a society without law and order.

Your mum is strongly recommended. :p


I agree with what you say, we need to be innovative http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... but let's assume that tomorrow, all the governments are brought down and we live in anarchy. What do you think would happen? http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/... There are people who won't just live in peace and accept the others unfortunately. Laws are needed, not to make people suffer, only to preserve safety! Freedom is considered freedom till your actions are in the expense of someone else's freedom.

Anarchy doesn't necessarily mean that the community lives without any rules. It's basically about a different way of decision making and organizing the community. Important is that there are no hierarchies, that everyone has equal say in the decisions important for the community. But this doesn't mean that it cannot be agreed upon for instance banning people from living in the community. Exile is actually one idea, common between anarchists, of dealing with people who don't agree with the rules in a community.

#26
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Yeah, right, because the law is the only thing that keeps me from raping and killing people.


So we shouldn't punish them at all?

#27
chatnoir

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So we shouldn't punish them at all?

I edited my last post and replied to your other post.

But to answer this specific question: I don't care much about punishment, as long as I'm safe of dangerous people. And this is something every society wants to establish as good as it gets, also an anarchist one. Like I said, we're not hippies.

#28
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I think the idea of anarchism is nice, but apart from, like others have said, it's not a realistic goal because humans are very flawed, I also don't think it would work. For a big society to survive, there has to be some sort of state or government to deal with things like health care and the economy, and yes, the law. Keep things going. If you just let everything happen, complete chaos would ensue. I don't think the state should be all over everything and everyone, but it should take care of basics like that. A state ruled by direct democracy*, preferably, instead of a handful of people with loads of power and the rest of the people without, but direct democracy is impossible or very impractical in a community or society with more than a few hundred people.

*Which would technically be a state without hierarchy, but you've got to have some people with more power just to get things done. If there's no hierarchy at all, nothing will ever get done.


Yeah, right, because the law is the only thing that keeps me from raping and killing people.

No, but the law does temporarily keep rapists and thieves out of society and tries/should try to rehabilitate them. I think the law is a factor that keeps some people who would be inclined to steal and rape from doing so.

But to answer this specific question: I don't care much about punishment, as long as I'm safe of dangerous people. And this is something every society wants to establish as good as it gets, also an anarchist one. Like I said, we're not hippies.

How are you gonna do that without laws?

#29
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Anarchy doesn't work in reality.

#30
chatnoir

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How are you gonna do that without laws?

An anarchist society doesn't necessarily have to be without laws. "No government" doesn't equal "no laws".



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