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The 2012 Presidential Election Thread

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#61
norcalgreendayfan

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The part of the whole equation that ticks me off the most is the exploration if corporations to manipulate the tax code to the point where they do have a zero tax liability and the politicians that continue to allow this to happen.

The fact that the average man contributes more to taxes than high earning corporations shows that the system is broken and something needs to be done so they start paying a bit more in to the system so that helps to close the deficit.

No deficit can be closed simply by making cuts alone it just can not be done. If that where the case funding in all areas would be minimal and service to the public would be greatly diminished. As unpopular it would be there must be an increase in taxes in addition to cuts to effectively close a deficit because revenue does have to come from somewhere. The reductions in the capital gains tax should have been allowed to lapse at the end of 2010 and I seriously do hope that they finally allow it to lapse in 2012

#62
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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This post is obscenely fucking long, so I hid it behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler


Then we can talk about health care reform. Sound like a plan?

#63
norcalgreendayfan

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I agree complelely with cutting military spending but ad long as it doesnt affect military pay and VA services because those are vital to our soldiers and veterans.
I have made it abundantly clear that I did not support Bush and his plan to invade Iraq. This really signalled the start of our economy going south to me and is costing the country billions each year since there was never any clear exit strategy so it leaves the military to continue to commit troops and other resources for years to come
Our military is a definite deterrent to any foreign invaders since there is no country out there that is stupid enough to start an actual war with the US. What needs to be done is our government needs to pull back from it's expansionist tendencies because it really is stretching things really thin

I disagree with the one year lifetime of unemployment insurance because there is always the potential things may happen and you lose your job multiple times which is entirely possible in this uncertain economic times where someone may indeed be laid off multiple times. I think there should be more help with job placement for those out of work because the sad truth is that you can't spend a few months out of work looking for a job because by the fourth or fifth month it becomes harder to land a job because the sad truth is that potential employers don't look kindly on people with gaps between jobs on their resume.

As far as corporate bailouts that started all started under the Bush Administration with the bailout of AIG and banks during the subprime mortgage crisis now that started the idea to bailout companies that dug themselves in to holes. So I think the precedence should have started then to not bail them out and that would have got companies thinking long and hard how to stabalise their own holdings. Bailing out the financial sector just lead to a precedence of bailing out other sectors.

I do think it should be made harder for companies to hide their profits and that it should be taxed appropriately based on quarterly earning reports. For example JP Morgan Chase reported a 4.8 billion profit in the 4th quarter and based on those profits they should be pay an applicable tax instead of handing their CEO another bonus.

I don't see how you can have capitalist competition of schools since they were meant to be run as a business. The key to schools is raising the standards in education. The lack of motivation has to do to those lack of standards and the under funding of schools. How can you be motivated to teach students when you lack the basic materials and have out dated textbooks. I think we need to look to other countries and their education systems to see how we can improve in that area. Other countries don't run their schools using a capitalist system yet their education systems outrank the US.
The US department needs to work with each of the state education departments to revamp these standards in education so that they can meet a these standards at various points in their schooling. I also think that looking to extend the school year an additional month or so would be beneficial so that everything isn't so compact and the time can be used to expand in subjects.
I disagree on taxing schools since they are Struggling with their budgets thus forcing to lay off teachers and increase class sizes. School districts are also forced to close schools due to budget shortfalls so laying a tax would make increase the burden on them.
If you want to tax something remove the tax exempt status on religious groups and tax them accordingly. The revenue generated from being able to tax Churches and such would help out budget shortfalls greatly.

#64
Trotsky

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I'll address education first.

I've been in public and private schools and I have a lot to say on this subject. Everyone starts with the thesis "You can't fix education by throwing money at it." This is for all purposes a true statement, but where does the money go?

In my county, magnet schools are everywhere. In fact, every single high school in the county has a magnet program. In addition, we still have a "school choice" policy, which only limits choices to one half of the county or another, but I'll get to that later.

The idea of a magnet school is to have a section of the student population studying a specific field, like business, medicine, criminal justice, engineering, or architecture. There are standards for getting in, minimal GPA's, but there are no distance requirements. Further, a student in a magnet program takes one class from that program every semester. But they are a segregated population in all other aspects of schooling. There is an English curriculum for the magnet students and an English curriculum for mainstream. They even have different principals running them.

So here is what these magnet schools do. They neglect their mainstream, severely, in order to give the very best to their magnet program, because it's the only redeeming quality about the school. The school may be an F school, but the magnet program counted all by themselves get a B. And then whenever they get more money, they will pour it straight into the magnet and help no one else, because they want to attract more students to the magnet so they can have more money. That's the cycle it goes in. It is essentially "tracking" in a subtle way, and tracking has proven to be a failure.

Now, back to the distance problem, most of the rest of the waste involves the busing system. So in Pinellas County, where I live, a student who lives in South St. Petersburg can go to school in Tarpon Springs (feel free to use Google Earth for perspective) if they are in a magnet program. School choice has a distance requirement though, they cut a straight line through the county. Anyone North of the line has all the northern choices, anyone South of the line has all the southern choices. Say you live South of the line. The nearest school to you is a half mile away, but it's on the other side of the line. You can't go there. You might end up at a school 3 miles away instead.

More waste in the busing system involves timing. The elementary, middle, and high schools all have their own buses, and they aren't doing anything but the one school. High school starts at 7AM, middle school starts at 9:30AM, high school ends at 1:45, middle school ends at 4. There could be less drivers doing more work, easily.

Finally, how do the schools themselves spend money? They will get new computers for all the students to use in the computer lab, and they will go in there perhaps 3 times a month, and then will do simple, trivial things that could have been done on some Windows 98 junk. They will buy new desks to replace the perfectly structurally sound desks that god forbid a kid drew a penis on one time. They will re-grass their football fields. They will introduce another sport that there already a community youth league for. They will make sure they pay for the students in special honors' math to go to Tallahassee to show off the school's name, rather than teach the rest of the students basic math they need.

My point is that we don't need to spend more on public schools, but we need to make sure they are spending the money the right way. See how much the school system would improve if you just made sure that half the money isn't wasted as it is now, and then you can talk about vouchers.

#65
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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My point is that we don't need to spend more on public schools, but we need to make sure they are spending the money the right way. See how much the school system would improve if you just made sure that half the money isn't wasted as it is now, and then you can talk about vouchers.


If my company is wasteful and underperforming because we can't manage money, we lose business. For all the "education reform" talk out there, why should schools be any different? If students suffer because administration can't get money to the right places, then offer parents a choice to divert their money to schools that will use it correctly. Capitalism FTW.

#66
Doris The Spider

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Out of the possible candidates I like Newt Gingrich the best.

#67
mmmcrazypills

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Out of the possible candidates I like Newt Gingrich the best.

Whats your take on his whole "I just love America so much it made me cheat on my wives" line of bull?

#68
Doris The Spider

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Whats your take on his whole "I just love America so much it made me cheat on my wives" line of bull?

Well, I never heard that so I don't know. But that doesn't matter to me.

#69
mechanicalman

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Gingrich strikes me as someone who wouldn't look out of place in Nazi Germany.
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#70
captain peroxide

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Well, I never heard that so I don't know. But that doesn't matter to me.

It should. It doesn't exactly paint a picture of him as a trustworthy person.

#71
November's Storms

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Well, I never heard that so I don't know. But that doesn't matter to me.


Yeah you can't really ignore the bad things about a person just so you can maintain your high opinion of them.

#72
Vrock09

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The way the Republican party is going.. Im pretty sure Obama will take the White House once again in 2012.

All this "birther" talk and not to mention the near government shut down that they tried to stir up all in the name of planned parenthood. :rolleyes: It's just getting way too ridiculous, to say the least. The whole government shut down issue was complete bullshit, it was a simple game of chess that Boehner was playing with the Democrats to make the Tea Baggers happy. Of course he had to make himself look like he wasn't going to back down, because unfortunately, it's them that are keeping him in office.

But one thing is for sure, people are down, frustrated, confused, and just flat out tired of the back and forth, well at least I am.

#73
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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Gingrich strikes me as someone who wouldn't look out of place in Nazi Germany.


Nazis:

1. Declared themselves the "master race."
2. Killed six million people as part of an ethnic cleansing campaign.
3. Conducted inhuman medical experiments on their victims.
4. Murdered women and children purely because they were Jewish, gypsy, gay or some other "impure" group.
5. Indoctrinated young boys by having them bring their dog to a Hitler Youth meeting and kill it as a show of loyalty to the state.
6. Tortured and killed people suspected of hiding Jews, even if there ended up being no proof of it.

When you have proof that Newt Gingrich engages in any of the above behaviors, or advocates engaging in them, feel free to make Nazi comparisons. Until then, don't fucking go there. Clear?

#74
mechanicalman

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I have no idea what dear old Newt does in his spare time, besides having affairs and calling Muslims atheists.


Although I think he once compared Obama to Hitler. Without proof. :o

#75
Tre's Busted Drumkit

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Calling someone a Nazi does not make the person who said it a Nazi. It does make them dumb as hell, but not a Nazi.

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#76
Doris The Spider

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All I said was that I would pick him now. It doesn't mean I will vote for him. I have to see the other candidates first too.

#77
Trotsky

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Well, I never heard that so I don't know. But that doesn't matter to me.


Gingrich is someone I have a fair amount of contempt for. Some of these conservatives are genuinely brainless, not Newt though, no. He is clearly very intelligent. Yet the choice he makes is to pander to the ignorant, to be a vitriol spitting "populist" who knows just how to stir hate.

He is one of the principal Islamophobes on the scene right now. Just like Peter King, he takes a witch hunt mentality towards Muslims. He is one of those conservatives who criticizes how Muslims treat women while he wants to take away their reproductive rights here, he will talk about how savage Iranian executions of gay people are, while not wanting any hate crime legislation here for when a redneck gang beats to death a gay man.

He reaches his hand out to the birthers. He is a pathetic opportunist, who chooses to forsake presenting a well-informed, practical conservative platform in favor of winning the love of the tea party and their extremists.

And no, he is not a Nazi, and Ben, everything Guy says is meant to not be taken seriously. ;)

#78
mechanicalman

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Obama's a Communist.

#79
captain peroxide

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Obama's a Communist.

I like to call him "King George Obama Stalin."
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#80
ifmemoryserves

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The number of purportedly intelligent adults I know who think Trump will be totz awesomesauce bb is scary. They seem to think you can run a country like a business. They also don't seem to realize he's completely devoid of common sense.

Didn't he file for bankruptcy? Yeah, that's totally who I want as president; a guy who can't even deal with his own finances, let alone the finances of a country that's already trillions of dollars in debt.

Trump aside, this whole campaign seems pretty bleak. Honestly I don't know much about any of the candidates (besides Obama obv) but I don't really see how anyone could fix all of this, or even make it better, considering how the whole government is basically at war with itself.

#81
lastnightonGDA

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Nazis:

1. Declared themselves the "master race."
2. Killed six million people as part of an ethnic cleansing campaign.
3. Conducted inhuman medical experiments on their victims.
4. Murdered women and children purely because they were Jewish, gypsy, gay or some other "impure" group.
5. Indoctrinated young boys by having them bring their dog to a Hitler Youth meeting and kill it as a show of loyalty to the state.
6. Tortured and killed people suspected of hiding Jews, even if there ended up being no proof of it.

7. Threw live Jewish infants into the air to use as shooting targets.

#82
Stanzie

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I don't like to be all "Republicans vs. Democrats" because I think that's a huge problem. But the fact of the matter is that the Republicans are basically saying no to every thing he Obama suggests when ( as Bill Mahr so aptly put it) Obama's done everything he can to appease them short of bleaching himself white. I imagine the goal is to get nothing done until the 2012 campaign and hopefully they can a Republican back in office. I can't imagine the American people being that stupid, but then again Bush was elected twice.

/controversial post is controversial

Edited by Stanzie, 12 April 2011 - 02:21 PM.


#83
captain peroxide

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I can't imagine the American people being that stupid

The American people ARE that stupid. I dunno where you live.

Average IQ is allegedly 100. That means half the population have double-digit IQs.

#84
Guest_☼_*

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The American people ARE that stupid. I dunno where you live.

Average IQ is allegedly 100. That means half the population have double-digit IQs.

This explains a lot.

#85
Stanzie

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The American people ARE that stupid. I dunno where you live.

Average IQ is allegedly 100. That means half the population have double-digit IQs.

Well yeah, I know. Hence why I followed that up with "but then again, Bush was elected twice".

But yeah, I think the problem is that people here refuse to be well-informed. I mean, the fact that one of the things going AGAINST Obama was that he was 'too intelligent.' People couldn't understand him. Only in America would that be a problem.

Edited by Stanzie, 12 April 2011 - 04:45 PM.


#86
Doris The Spider

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Also, John Edwards and Bill Clinton cheated on their wives. No, they didn't say something like the quote from Newt, but it really doesn't surprise me that a congressman or senator would cheat. It happens. Plus, aren't most politicians liars and cheaters?

Also, I'm assuming this was Newt's quote that you were talking about, "There's no question at times in my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate." This makes SOME sense to me. Like as if he was so stressed and busy trying to make the US better. Maybe he wasn't home a lot. idk

Well yeah, I know. Hence why I followed that up with "but then again, Bush was elected twice".

But yeah, I think the problem is that people here refuse to be well-informed. I mean, the fact that one of the things going AGAINST Obama was that he was 'too intelligent.' People couldn't understand him. Only in America would that be a problem.

I don't think that's the problem. I think it's because he talks out of his ass.

#87
captain peroxide

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I think it's because he talks out of his ass.

Plus, aren't most politicians liars and cheaters?


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#88
ifmemoryserves

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The American people ARE that stupid. I dunno where you live.

Average IQ is allegedly 100. That means half the population have double-digit IQs.

This is terrifying.

#89
captain peroxide

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This is terrifying.

Welcome to the New World, baby :cool:

#90
Trotsky

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I don't think that's the problem. I think it's because he talks out of his ass.


That's often how people perceive others talking on subjects above their grasp.
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