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Lights Out, Hearts Collide, and the American Idiot B-Sides


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#1 Insomniac186

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:45 AM

After listening to Lights Out and Heart Collide, which are the latest Green Day b-sides, I couldn't hep but notice that they have several similarities to the American Idiot b-sides. Similar production, similar song structure, and oh yeah-a similar engineer (Chris Dugan). Chris Dugan and Reto Peter engineered The Network album as well as most of American Idiot b-sides. Chris Dugan also produced the Foxboro Hot Tubs album.

Here is a breakdown of non-album Green Day tracks released since 2004 along with the producer and or engineer.

I Fought The Law (Uncredited, unless anyone knows otherwise)
Favorite Son (Rob Cavallo/Doug McKean, according to the Japanese version of American Idiot)
Too Much Too Soon (Reto Peter)
Shoplifter (Chris Dugan/Reto Peter)
Governator (Chris Dugan/Reto Peter)
Lights Out (Chris Dugan)
Hearts Collide (Chris Dugan)

Aside from the first two tracks, this easily proves that none of these songs come from the actual recording sessions for either American Idiot or 21st Century Breakdown. Given their similarities, I'd say that these were recorded around 2002/2003, probably around or at the same time as the sessions for "Money Money 2020." Lights Out and Hearts Collide may have also been recorded around the time "Stop Drop And Roll" was recorded. Could we really be hearing the "lost album" without even knowing it? My theory is that the master tapes were never "accidentally" thrown away. The band probably just decided to start over, and the songs that weren't worth re-recording could simply be issued as b-sides. Either that or perhaps they were just demos of some sort that were good enough to release.

Any thoughts, opinions, or theories?

Edited by Insomniac186, 13 May 2009 - 12:46 AM.


#2 Green Daynger25

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:49 AM

Could be but I still believe there was no C&V. Just made it seem they weren't being lazy. But your theory wouldn't surprise me. Good investigating.

#3 Rezurgam

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:49 AM

Dude, I was thinking this, except only for Lights Out and Hearts Collide.

#4 Drink Drank Punk

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:50 AM

fuck, you figured out their secret. I'm jealous, I wanted to figure it out first.

#5 JasonH

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:52 AM

Hmmm....nice thinking, hadn't even crossed my mind. We all know the lost tapes are bullshit, so you might have something.

#6 TheBullwinkle

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:52 AM

Eh. I don't know. I don't really care when they were recorded. All I know is that they kick ass.

#7 Eldoon

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:07 AM

I think this is a solid hypothesis! Maybe someday we'll find out the answer for sure; I've always been super interested in Cigarettes & Valentines ever since I discovered all those old "answering machine" songs that were posted on GD.com ages ago.

#8 CarmenPunkGirl

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:17 AM

Lights Out sounds a lot like Money Money 2020. And Christian's Inferno also was made for the Network...



#9 Hitman

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:29 AM

Damn, Sherlock Holmes.

#10 Greenday_Aussie

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:31 AM

LO and HC sound different, and they have different song structures to AI.

No.

#11 Insomniac186

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:55 AM

QUOTE (Greenday_Aussie @ May 12 2009, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LO and HC sound different, and they have different song structures to AI.

No.


I'll have to disagree. It was hearing those two, Lights Out specifically, that made me curious in the first place. It could easily have been a Network song. Similar spacey production and guitar work.

#12 dallasthemenace

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 02:13 AM

this thread makes me sleepy. bored.gif

#13 The Punk

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 03:18 AM

I agree with you, and the song Hearts collide has a theme that fits for the "Valentines" on C & V title

#14 MrGreenDayUK

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 03:22 AM

I dunno about C&V or anything, but I was definitely thinking that Lights Out is older. Production is very very similar, it sounds like older Green Day. Mike's bass is a lot more prominent than any other 21CB songs. I suppose it's just leftover from some recording session in the early 2000s, but we won't know.

#15 Greenday_Aussie

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 03:32 AM

I disagree, Billie didnt have that Black gretch seen in the Q mag photos (different one to BIAB one) and thats whats used for HC, also, both songs seem to be written for the Gloria and Christian story. They sound the same as songs off Breakdown, and have the solo replayed in the last verse (like Murder City)

These are Breakdown bsides, nothing more.

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#16 Guest_Hayley_*

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 03:39 AM

I don't think that C&V has never existed. And in the new songs we can hear some techniques and vocal skills that Billie has never used before. I think that the songs were made for 21CB and not for C&V or at least I want to believe that.

#17 captain peroxide

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 04:05 AM

At the end of the day, this is all pretty much speculation. I don't think we're ever going to figure it out unless the band make a statement. And HC / LO are in the style of 21CB. Why would they write them back then and then use a different style to record AI?

I'm gonna let this stay open for a bit just because it's interesting but I'm pretty unconvinced. I think people just want there to be something fishy going on related to C&V, when it's far more likely that a) It's true, and the band didn't ever get the masters back or b) They made it up.

#18 Kryssi.

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 05:37 AM

What IS it with people and 'Cigarettes and Valentines'?!

#19 Tiffx

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 05:40 AM

QUOTE (Kryssi. @ May 13 2009, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What IS it with people and 'Cigarettes and Valentines'?!


I know I really don't get it.

#20 TheMinority

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 05:43 AM

The big mystery that no one knows much of. Of course there is gonna be many theories around that biggrin.gif

Good theory by the way. But I guess we will never know for sure.

#21 Broccoli Bob

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 05:46 AM

Didn't they say that Cigarettes & Valentines was going to have a similar sound to Warning:? And that could've been a reason they said it got "stolen", because Warning: was their worst selling album and they decided it was time for a change in musical style and songwriting, thus American Idiot was born. And that proved to be a bigger critical and commercial success than they had imagined. Either they withheld Cigarettes & Valentines or it really did get stolen, and whoever stole it didn't share it with the world.

All of the new b-sides don't give off a Warning: or even an American Idiot vibe to me. They sound more like something that would go with 21st Century Breakdown. It's really not a conspiracy.

#22 novacaine_kid

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 07:10 AM

Interesting theory but no one will ever find out the truth over c&v. My personal opinion is that the whole stolen album thing is bs. but i do like the bsides a lot.

#23 Ally

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:01 AM

i don't think the b-sides are from cigarettes and valentines, i'm not entirely sure it ever existed.

#24 b u r n o u t

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:10 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if elements of "Cigarettes and Valentines" made it on 21st Century Breakdown or the B-Sides.

I still haven't found a Hearts Collide torrent yet. So if anyone can help me out I'd really appreciate it.

#25 Guest_Shangri-La_*

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:28 AM

I think you're completely wrong. The production is a lot more similar to the 21cb style, not to mention BJ's voice sounds slightly different than it did on AI.
and Chris Dugan also did 21st Century Breakdown.

#26 Insomniac186

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:35 AM

Well, I figure if Lights Out and Hearts Collide were recorded for 21CBD, they would at least say "Produced by Butch Vig" in the credits but it doesn't. Green Day themselves get the production credit. They also sound more low-budget; just listen to any song from 21CBD back-to-back with either of the b-sides.

#27 gdpunk2

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 11:37 AM

Ahhhh, and Hearts Collide and Lights out were left from the album because they dident fit with the story, because they were made for C&V...Say it was true that is

#28 Juliette

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 12:50 PM

Where are Hearts Collide & Lights Out available if they're not on the album ?

#29 Insomniac186

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Juliette @ May 13 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where are Hearts Collide & Lights Out available if they're not on the album ?


They are available on the Know Your Enemy CD singles.

#30 Juliette

 
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Posted 13 May 2009 - 01:27 PM

That's what I thought but the only one I saw available didn;t have any other songs on it confused.gif


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