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Butch Walker breaks down FOAM at NAAM


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1 minute ago, Brutalitops said:

I'm not saying some can't enjoy it, but the "poor speakers" argument has always been a pet peeve of mine. Even just running the songs in a program and observing the wavelengths would demonstrate the poor mixing and "blowing out" of the audio that is present on FOAM 

Then again, RevRad had the same issue so maybe part of it is Billie and co actually thinking "more/louder is better" or something.

Sometimes I wish I never studied production because it made me notice these things I never used to and ruin them for myself, RIP

In terms of loudness and dynamic range these songs looks better than what the band released since 21CB tho.

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Just now, HAPPY ROOTING UNICORN said:

In terms of loudness and dynamic range these songs looks better than what the band released since 21CB tho.

To be honest I don't think Green Day has nailed production for the better part of two decades

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Just now, Brutalitops said:

To be honest I don't think Green Day has nailed production for the better part of two decades

If you refer to loudness and dynamic range that's a trend that involves most of mainstream music tho. I know and understand it's controversial, but it's not a GD issue. 

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1 minute ago, Brutalitops said:

To be honest I don't think Green Day has nailed production for the better part of two decades

Can you tell me what you don't like about AI or 21cb's production? Does this include Warning as well? It's often grouped with the 90's records for some and then with AI and 21cb for others. 

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Just now, Sheenius said:

Can you tell me what you don't like about AI or 21cb's production? Does this include Warning as well? It's often grouped with the 90's records for some and then with AI and 21cb for others. 

American Idiot was good, it's the 16 years since that make up the better part of 2 decades for me.

21CB is more of a personal preference in terms of my dislike for the production. The "echo" effect a lot of instruments have throughout may suit the epic sound they were going for. But I'm someone who prefers a more condensed, personal sound. From a technical standpoint, 21CB is okay, although it does not feel like a "live" album if that makes sense.

As in its an album that feels quite obvious in the fact it was recorded piecemeal and what you are hearing is not four guys in a room. While AI was the same, it felt far more natural in the way it was stitched together. Love the acoustic guitar that's used a lot in the background on AI to give this unique guitar tone.

Imo Warning sounds great. Dookie is pretty clearly my number 1 produced album possibly ever, each millisecond so precise in how it is constructed. Yet every song maintaining a "loose" feel. 

I love Green Day but to me, the worst thing they did was become so "perfect". Not one beat is missed, each strum of the guitar feels so robotic and coordinated, and while I still like the songs done with this, I can't help but feel it could be done better. Perhaps this explains my fondness for Longshot and to a lesser extent, FBHT. They felt dirty, real yet polished.

Anyway that's my yearly production rant over!

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5 minutes ago, Brutalitops said:

Imo Warning sounds great. Dookie is pretty clearly my number 1 produced album possibly ever, each millisecond so precise in how it is constructed. Yet every song maintaining a "loose" feel. 

 

Yes 21cb was very grandiose it seems like it's just a bit much in regards to pomp and circumstance for your taste. 

Dookie's production is so simple but I say that in a positive manner. There's no extras it's the band as they are with just great songs. There's no added stuff to take away from it. 

I still laugh to this day about the argument they had over reverb and just wanting it to be completely bone dry. I guess that was the 80's hardcore punk influence on them. Honestly, Dookie basically just sounds like a Black Flag album if it was made in a professional studio with a pro producer and engineers and if they were more melodic and harmonious in their songwriting. 

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11 minutes ago, Brutalitops said:

American Idiot was good, it's the 16 years since that make up the better part of 2 decades for me.

I understand your point of view, and I do agree that the production of AI is superior to anything else that followed. Honestly I am not an audiophile enough to care that much about loudness and dynamic range, but the original version of AI released in 2004 is the last GD record with an impressive dynamic range, in line with the previous releases. The remastered one is worse than 21CB and the Trilogy. 
From what I hear and see looking at these tracks, these new songs do better than anything after the original AI release tho, so I think blaming Butch is unfair. It's true that you notice the impact of loudness levels more on a track like FRA rather that than in FOAM or Revolution Radio.

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5 minutes ago, HAPPY ROOTING UNICORN said:

The remastered one is worse than 21CB and the Trilogy. 
 

Wait what? There's a remaster? 

First off, how did I not know this? Second off, why would they remaster it???

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10 minutes ago, Sheenius said:

Wait what? There's a remaster? 

First off, how did I not know this? Second off, why would they remaster it???

Yes, there is a remaster from 2012, I think it was made for HDtracks, that improves a lot the dynamic range. 
Edit: I just realized I wrote the opposite in my previous post lol I am too tired to write 

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2 minutes ago, HAPPY ROOTING UNICORN said:

Yes, there is a remaster from 2012, I think it was made for HDtracks, that improves a lot the dynamic range. 

Interesting. I think it's a bit early for that. The only remasters I've ever purchased are of older Jazz records and the Rush 70's and 80's albums which were re-released on CD with remasters. Don't really see the point of remastering an album 8 years later. I know Rush remastered an album 15 years later cause a lot of their fans complained about the album's production. Personally, I liked it and it's imperfections and actually disliked the cleaner remaster. Just an opinion thing I guess. 

 

I was thinking more of a remaster later like in 2030 or something. It will be done again for sure. When people are looking for rock records I really believe the more we move forward AI will be one of the first that a person seeks out just based off of reference points. I have a feeling that 80's and 90's rock and alternative acts will somewhat rise as a new classic rock scene as classic rock performers are dying, retiring or are just too old or touring without original members. Classic Rock acts of the 60's and 70's will still be respected but there's something different when you have a classic act that can still effectively tour. 

Maybe one day our kids will be going to stores and picking up AI, RHCP albums, Early GNR, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, The Offspring etc. A really great place to start. 

Nirvana's little tree of influences and past endeavors leads to The Germs and influence from Sonic Youth and The Pixies. GD leads to Op Ivy, Rancid, Bad Religion etc

 

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51 minutes ago, Brutalitops said:

American Idiot was good, it's the 16 years since that make up the better part of 2 decades for me.

Yeah, I think I'd agree with this. American Idiot's production is certainly very impressive to me. The vinyl alternate master actually sounds even more epic due to the added dynamic range. 

I quite like 21CB as an album and it trumps most, if not all of official Green Day material since then in my opinion, but at the end of the day I think it just sits in AI's shadow in so many ways. Not least, because it seems they (very understandably) wanted to capitalise on the success of AI, so therefore went for a very similar format. It's similar enough that you're forced to compare the two and once you do, well then it's very difficult not to give AI the win.  

Dookie's production is also great. One only needs to listen to the individual tracks to get a feel for how they nailed each instrument's sound, but the whole thing together is just on another level and immensely satisfying to listen to on hifi.

My personal favourite in terms of production happens to be Nimrod though. That thing sounds so tight to my ears (and also really well balanced), yet it also manages to keep the organic "3-4 guys in a room playing their instruments" kind of sound.

17 minutes ago, Sheenius said:

Interesting. I think it's a bit early for that. The only remasters I've ever purchased are of older Jazz records and the Rush 70's and 80's albums which were re-released on CD with remasters. Don't really see the point of remastering an album 8 years later. I know Rush remastered an album 15 years later cause a lot of their fans complained about the album's production. Personally, I liked it and it's imperfections and actually disliked the cleaner remaster. Just an opinion thing I guess. 

That remaster is worth it though for me. It's actually not so much a remaster, but rather based on an alternate master for vinyl (first released in 2006 under Adeline Records, then in 2009 under Reprise). I can thoroughly recommend it, because the dynamic range is greatly increased. So much so that there is even extra instrumentation that you can hear in songs like BOBD and Homecoming that got completely drowned out by the original compression. 

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He said the only song they didn't re-record was FOA. All of the other tracks were re-recorded at his studio in Santa Monica.

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For American Idiot stuff, there a few versions around:

- Original 2004 mix, with CD and Vynil masterings

- Small remix in 2009, used for all the reissues launched for the entire catalog on that year. This version is the one that has TV sounds on "nobody likes you"

- The remix of 2009 was newly remastered on 2012 for the release on HDtracks along with the release of the Trilogy. 

This also serves as a guide how music industry has changed on the last years. With the add of cloud network, now everything can be done faster. When Butch talked about how the band recorded and sent stuff to him, it was just a matter of hours probably, and then just the same afternoon they reicived a "improved" version.

I think that they wanted to take the most advantage of the new management. That's why they had a lot more and different people involved in the new record. Hope it pays!

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37 minutes ago, greendepent said:

For American Idiot stuff, there a few versions around:

- Original 2004 mix, with CD and Vynil masterings

- Small remix in 2009, used for all the reissues launched for the entire catalog on that year. This version is the one that has TV sounds on "nobody likes you"

- The remix of 2009 was newly remastered on 2012 for the release on HDtracks along with the release of the Trilogy. 

This also serves as a guide how music industry has changed on the last years. With the add of cloud network, now everything can be done faster. When Butch talked about how the band recorded and sent stuff to him, it was just a matter of hours probably, and then just the same afternoon they reicived a "improved" version.

I think that they wanted to take the most advantage of the new management. That's why they had a lot more and different people involved in the new record. Hope it pays!

Interesting information!! I had noticed the TV sounds of my vinyl copy that aren't present on the digital version and had always wondered what was up with that. Now i know :)

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20 hours ago, Brutalitops said:

I'm having fucking 'nam flashbacks with Butch right now. Being a Weezer fan, I've ridden this ride before with Pacific Daydream. He breaks down things in an impressive manner, but at the end of the day, his production tends to have multie issues in the mix. It's already apparent so far on FOAM that the muddiness is there, much like how on Pacific Daydream, there were entire instrumental tracks completely buried in the mix. 

Do not get me started on Raditude either. Songs that, at their core could have been extremely solid, run through the Butch filter and coming out the other side with silly bells and whistles and too much lost along the way. 

Mate, there was no defending Raditude. What the hell was that album.

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I'm not a fan of adding a bunch of extra stuff in the songs and that "muddy" sound that keeps getting described, but it was still extremely interesting to hear Butch talk about that process. I like a much more stripped down sound that where you can hear the true sound of a voice or an instrument. Some messing around is okay, but so far I strongly prefer the live version of FOAM over the recorded version. I think one of my favorite sounding GD albums is AI because it just sounds so big. That's really the only way I can describe it. It has a feeling of being there and hearing them live. 21CB has a bit of that too. I like the Trilogy a lot soundwise as well.

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I can't remember which thread I saw the comment anymore but someone said we should have a "Demolicious 2" with the tracks as they were handed in to Butch Walker. It isn't that I don't like the new music but I'd just love to hear the difference!

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5 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

I can't remember which thread I saw the comment anymore but someone said we should have a "Demolicious 2" with the tracks as they were handed in to Butch Walker. It isn't that I don't like the new music but I'd just love to hear the difference!

Couldn't agree more! It's really cool to compare.

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5 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

I can't remember which thread I saw the comment anymore but someone said we should have a "Demolicious 2" with the tracks as they were handed in to Butch Walker. It isn't that I don't like the new music but I'd just love to hear the difference!

I would love that as well, even if I do like the production so far. It would be cool to get something like that for the record store day, but I guess it’s too close to the album release. Maybe next year 😛 

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On 1/20/2020 at 8:02 AM, jengd said:

Forgot to say, amazing how quickly the band recorded these, all the mixing etc took longer, @LaughingClock said we could be getting new music quicker then we might expect and it looks like he was largely right but then these processes slowed it all down.  Would have been interesting to hear about them going back into the studio too.

IMG_9743.JPG?dl=1

 

C-Rock6000 ... Was there. :) Spent a lot of time messing with the LUNA.  It's a protools killer.  Not from RI btw. :(

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