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Adorkable

2020 US Presidential Election

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Adorkable

This thread may seem a bit premature, however, I think it is important to gain an understanding of the candidates and there is no time like the present.

The field of democratic candidates is massive and no one was standing out to me as even slightly interesting. I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2016 and I still like him. However, I think he is too old for the presidency and while I agree with most of his stances on the issues, I think that his ideas on how to get to them are often non-existant or unrealistic. 

However, there is finally a candidate that has intrigued me, Pete Buttigieg. For those who don't know, Pete is the Mayor of South Bend Indiana. He is a Navy veteran. He is a graduate of Harvard University, Oxford University and a Rhodes Scholar. He speaks 7 languages. If elected, he would be the youngest US President (he is 37 years old now) and the first openly gay US President.

As of right now, he has conducted himself with intelligence, grace and dignity, something the US is sorely lacking. His response to the people of France was what I would expect from a world leader. He responded in French, saying the following: "The Cathedral of Notre Dame has been a gift of civilization to all humanity, and we are of one spirit with the French people this evening."

While I have read some articles on his policy stance, I cannot find a collective summary of where he stands on the issues. Even on his president campaign site, there is a summary of him but nothing on where he stands on the issues.

So as of now, I am intrigued. I need to do alot more research but Pete has gotten me interested in the election.

What does everyone else think, not just about Pete Buttigieg but about any of the other candidates? Any good information?  
 

 

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Little Boy Named Airplane

I'm not a big fan of politic in my country. So outside Canada I'm even worse. 
I do know though that there is a young woman named Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who's a lot in the media. But then again I'm not even sure 😂
 

This will probably be the only post I'll do in this topic 'cause I can't debate on politic. Everyone will destroy me 🚮

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Adorkable
1 minute ago, Little Boy Named Airplane said:

I'm not a big fan of politic in my country. So outside Canada I'm even worse. 
I do know though that there is a young woman named Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who's a lot in the media. But then again I'm not even sure 😂
 

This will probably be the only post I'll do in this topic 'cause I can't debate on politic. Everyone will destroy me 🚮

AOC is a new Congress woman from NYC. She defeated a long time incumbent in the primaries. I personally feel she gets more attention then she deserves, good and bad. She is one of the authors of the Green New Deal. Which I haven't really read as much as I should but from what I've seen I agree in theory but the methods of achieving it can be unrealistic

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80 Androids

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is basically one of the only people I don't want to win.

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Beerjeezus

She's not even running so this wish is granted :P

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80 Androids
Just now, Beerjeezus said:

She's not even running so this wish is granted :P

Yeah, I'm glad

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Tre's Busted Drumkit

A municipal politician from Indiana running for the Presidency. It's like Parks & Rec, except if he's the best that Democrats have got, it's not funny.

If the party doesn't unite behind one candidate (like, actually unite, not Hillary unite), the 2020 election will be a cakewalk for Trump. Running a "democratic socialist" is a great way to never win again, because those of us in the middle who like our money are never going to vote for one.

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Brooklyn Baby

it's too fukkin early for this shit.

eta Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is dumber even than Trump, hate her so much. 

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
4 hours ago, Brooklyn Baby said:

eta Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is dumber even than Trump, hate her so much. 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez walks into a bar. She gets a concussion. It doesn't help.

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WhiteTim
7 hours ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

A municipal politician from Indiana running for the Presidency. It's like Parks & Rec, except if he's the best that Democrats have got, it's not funny.

If the party doesn't unite behind one candidate (like, actually unite, not Hillary unite), the 2020 election will be a cakewalk for Trump. Running a "democratic socialist" is a great way to never win again, because those of us in the middle who like our money are never going to vote for one.

I think I may have an idea of why you’re saying this but what do you mean by that? 

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
On 4/17/2019 at 10:21 PM, WhiteTim said:

I think I may have an idea of why you’re saying this but what do you mean by that? 

I lean strongly left on social issues, and fairly right on financial. That's a pretty typical look for a person who's squarely in the middle, hates everyone who's registered to one of the big two parties and wants them all to shut up, go home and let us find competent people to run the country.

The short version is that I don't think we should be paying individual income tax at all. I think this country should be running on a flat consumption tax that's leveled evenly across every transaction that takes place in the United States (aside from childcare, medical bills, etc.). There's no hiding behind tax codes and loopholes Everyone pays in their fair cut. If you're going to complain that you paid a crap-ton more in taxes on your new car than your neighbor did on theirs, well, you're the one who bought the car at that price. You're paying into the economy based on what you get out of it, not paying for the privilege of earning money.

I'm not inclined to support any plan to that raises individual income taxes at this point. That's not to say I couldn't be swayed by a candidate strong enough in other areas that I'd bite my tongue and vote for them, but I don't want to see any further "tax reform" that doesn't fundamentally change how taxes in this country work.

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WhiteTim
48 minutes ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

I lean strongly left on social issues, and fairly right on financial. That's a pretty typical look for a person who's squarely in the middle, hates everyone who's registered to one of the big two parties and wants them all to shut up, go home and let us find competent people to run the country.

The short version is that I don't think we should be paying individual income tax at all. I think this country should be running on a flat consumption tax that's leveled evenly across every transaction that takes place in the United States (aside from childcare, medical bills, etc.). There's no hiding behind tax codes and loopholes Everyone pays in their fair cut. If you're going to complain that you paid a crap-ton more in taxes on your new car than your neighbor did on theirs, well, you're the one who bought the car at that price. You're paying into the economy based on what you get out of it, not paying for the privilege of earning money.

I'm not inclined to support any plan to that raises individual income at this point. That's not to say I couldn't be swayed by a candidate strong enough in other areas that I'd bite my tongue and vote for them, but I don't want to see any further "tax reform" that doesn't fundamentally change how taxes in this country work.

A flat consumption tax wouldn’t work at all... 

and the taxes I’ve seen most Democrats are proposing aren’t raising taxes for the majority of Americans (at least that’s what I’ve seen being talked about I will have to really research it fully later) they’re aiming at those who make 5 million or more a year are you making 5 million or more? I’ve seen so many on FB bitch and moan and it’s like why do you care if they want to tax the rich more? 95% of them will never make that much a year much less in their lifetime 

Tho right now as much as I don’t like my states governor and don’t like Cruz I do like their plan of raising sales tax by one percent and lowering the property taxes down but that’s cause I pay property taxes for several properties so I’d welcome a lower amount on a personal level but overall I don’t mind if I have to pay more as long as the money actually gets used to improve things like they’re supposed to be 

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
8 hours ago, WhiteTim said:

A flat consumption tax wouldn’t work at all... 

and the taxes I’ve seen most Democrats are proposing aren’t raising taxes for the majority of Americans (at least that’s what I’ve seen being talked about I will have to really research it fully later) they’re aiming at those who make 5 million or more a year are you making 5 million or more? I’ve seen so many on FB bitch and moan and it’s like why do you care if they want to tax the rich more? 95% of them will never make that much a year much less in their lifetime 

Tho right now as much as I don’t like my states governor and don’t like Cruz I do like their plan of raising sales tax by one percent and lowering the property taxes down but that’s cause I pay property taxes for several properties so I’d welcome a lower amount on a personal level but overall I don’t mind if I have to pay more as long as the money actually gets used to improve things like they’re supposed to be 

Why wouldn't a flat consumption tax work? Genuinely curious, as one of the tax proposals floating around Congress and refusing to die is the Fair Tax. I don't think the Fair Tax goes far enough, honestly, as I don't think we should be sending monthly refund checks out, but that is a strictly consumption-based system. I'd also like to see an end to mandatory Social Security taxes, at least for people under 40, because it's going to be emptied out or turned into a government-sponsored 401K long before any of us get to see it.

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The Bellie

I haven't particularly sought information about candidates for the US election yet, but French media have brought out Pete Buttigieg lately, in a positive way, and I think from the little information I've read I wouldn't mind like him elected at all! I didn't know he was openly gay, but that would be awesome if he was elected then.

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WhiteTim
3 hours ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

Why wouldn't a flat consumption tax work? Genuinely curious, as one of the tax proposals floating around Congress and refusing to die is the Fair Tax. I don't think the Fair Tax goes far enough, honestly, as I don't think we should be sending monthly refund checks out, but that is a strictly consumption-based system. I'd also like to see an end to mandatory Social Security taxes, at least for people under 40, because it's going to be emptied out or turned into a government-sponsored 401K long before any of us get to see it.

Not enough people purchase big ticket items but maybe I’m wrong and it’ll work 

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The Blayr
9 hours ago, The Bellie said:

I haven't particularly sought information about candidates for the US election yet, but French media have brought out Pete Buttigieg lately, in a positive way, and I think from the little information I've read I wouldn't mind like him elected at all! I didn't know he was openly gay, but that would be awesome if he was elected then.

I agree, an openly gay President would be awesome. There's still a lot of hate against homosexual people at least from what I hear/see so that would go a long way and mean a lot to members of the LGBTQ community such as myself if we could get an openly gay President. That being said, I wouldn't want him elected just because he represents a very real group of people who many try to deny or belittle. Just like Hilary Clinton, her winning would have been big because she would be the first female president, but I wouldn't have voted for her if I didn't agree on her policy issues, except that she was against Trump, so I might've (I was too young to vote then anyway and knew very little about politics). Point is, a gay President would be nice, but I'll need to know his stance on all the important issues before I can say I support him. 

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Sarcasm

I miss bush

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The Blayr
6 hours ago, Sarcasm said:

I miss bush

I miss Green Day writing songs about Bush

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o_O

My Picks:

Obviously Bernie is my go to. Followed by Tulsi Gabbard and Elizabeth Warren. Now if Sanders wins the Dem nomination, I'd be happy with Warren, Nina Turner, or Tulsi being VP pick. 

I'd consider Kamala and Mayor Pete if they change certain stances (Green New Deal) I believe both are ok with Bernie's Medicare for All.

Beto seems like a corporate shill taking from oil companies money. He seems off to me. 

Yang,  I believe he's pro charter school (the only issue I have with Charters is certain ones taking public school funds and not even lasting a long time/take the money and run deal) 

 

There's like only two good Libertarian choices, Greens: if Baraka, or Honkala runs they'd have my vote if all else fails.

 

I'm hoping Bill Weld can unseat Trump in the Republican side though. I also hope Kasich makes another run. Him and Weld seem to appeal to the moderate conservatives. 

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Adorkable
1 hour ago, o_O said:

My Picks:

Obviously Bernie is my go to. Followed by Tulsi Gabbard and Elizabeth Warren. Now if Sanders wins the Dem nomination, I'd be happy with Warren, Nina Turner, or Tulsi being VP pick. 

I'd consider Kamala and Mayor Pete if they change certain stances (Green New Deal) I believe both are ok with Bernie's Medicare for All.

Beto seems like a corporate shill taking from oil companies money. He seems off to me. 

Yang,  I believe he's pro charter school (the only issue I have with Charters is certain ones taking public school funds and not even lasting a long time/take the money and run deal) 

 

There's like only two good Libertarian choices, Greens: if Baraka, or Honkala runs they'd have my vote if all else fails.

 

I'm hoping Bill Weld can unseat Trump in the Republican side though. I also hope Kasich makes another run. Him and Weld seem to appeal to the moderate conservatives. 

Are you for or against the green new deal? Because both mayor Pete and Kamala Harris support it. I'm unsure on it. While I do agree with the concept of it, it gives no ideas on how to fund it and the goals seem unrealistic. Plus the fact that it is proposed by AOC reduces its believability. Also many environmental groups do not support it

I was a big Bernie supporter but one problem I have is that I usually agree with where he stands on the issues but his ideas on how to get there are often unrealistic. And the big problem I have is his age, the same with Elizabeth Warren and Joe biden.

One of the problems with Mayor Pete is he had not given alot of info on where he stands on the issues. However, where he has, I agree with him. He is not for Medicare for all. He calls his stance Medicare for all that want it. The idea is to offer a viable Medicare plan, but also allow private insurance. The Medicare plan would transition to the point where most people will choose it because it is the best plan. 

Most people dont like change. Plus, it is not financially feasible to do a rapid change like going from where we are today to Medicare for all. We need to get to Medicare for all, but it needs to happen gradually. That is why I like Mayor Pete's methodology.

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
18 hours ago, Sarcasm said:

I miss bush

Me too.

Wait, we're talking about different things, aren't we?

 

6 hours ago, o_O said:

I'm hoping Bill Weld can unseat Trump in the Republican side though. I also hope Kasich makes another run. Him and Weld seem to appeal to the moderate conservatives. 

No Republican is going to run against Trump. The two big parties have seen their members become increasingly polarized as more centrist, moderate types venture off to the land of no party affiliation. As a result, Trump is virtually untouchable in a primary election.

 

4 hours ago, Adorkable said:

Are you for or against the green new deal? Because both mayor Pete and Kamala Harris support it. I'm unsure on it. While I do agree with the concept of it, it gives no ideas on how to fund it and the goals seem unrealistic. Plus the fact that it is proposed by AOC reduces its believability. Also many environmental groups do not support it

I was a big Bernie supporter but one problem I have is that I usually agree with where he stands on the issues but his ideas on how to get there are often unrealistic. And the big problem I have is his age, the same with Elizabeth Warren and Joe biden.

One of the problems with Mayor Pete is he had not given alot of info on where he stands on the issues. However, where he has, I agree with him. He is not for Medicare for all. He calls his stance Medicare for all that want it. The idea is to offer a viable Medicare plan, but also allow private insurance. The Medicare plan would transition to the point where most people will choose it because it is the best plan. 

Most people dont like change. Plus, it is not financially feasible to do a rapid change like going from where we are today to Medicare for all. We need to get to Medicare for all, but it needs to happen gradually. That is why I like Mayor Pete's methodology.

Kamala Harris is a far left wacko. The same goes for Warren, who is actually dangerous to those of us that are employed in fields with customers, and most of the Democratic field. I like Tulsi Gabbard a lot because she's the only person in the entire field who demonstrates centrist tendencies and appeal across the aisle. Trump and Bannon invited her to work with them on their transition, and Bannon singled her out as a member of Congress he was looking forward to working with.

This new guy, Mayor Pete, is using his Presidential campaign to increase his profile. He's not going to make it past the Iowa Caucus, and even if the entire Democratic Party did manage to lose what's left of their minds and send him through to the general election, he would be absolutely destroyed by Trump in debates, in advertising and in the general election. He's the mayor of a city in Indiana and...that's it. Even Leslie Knope served a term as governor first, and she's the best thing to come out of Indiana since...um...has anything else come out of Indiana?

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Trotsky

I'm going to end up voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries, as he is the one who has the best overall policy positions and the least amount of problems. The only serious reservation I have about Bernie Sanders is whether he will truly be able to stand up to the military industrial complex. He does recognize the atrocity of America giving financial and material support for the genocide that Saudi Arabia is carrying out in Yemen and he is one of the few candidates who would do at least the bare minimum to keep Israel in check. But he has not been as firm as I had hoped against the absolute insanity that would be a "military intervention" (WAR) in Venezuela, and it does not seem like he wants to make a firm commitment to bringing the war in Afghanistan to an end.

Tulsi Gabbard is the best candidate on foreign policy by far, as she has actually been a soldier and understands what is really going on. I only wish she had better policy positions at home. She won't make a firm commitment to Medicare for All, that's quite a turnoff. The other problem is that as much as I like her, she doesn't have a chance. The mainstream media won't even say her name most of the time, she has been consistently blacklisted. Those who actually bother to acknowledge her existence and talk to her mindlessly stick to the script, refusing to even attempt to understand what she has to say.

Watch Meghan McCain utterly embarrass herself while Tulsi Gabbard tries in vain to educate her, skip to 3:29:

When Tulsi Gabbard told the truth about Syria, she pissed off a lot of powerful people who are out to destroy her now. Even though Bernie Sanders will have my vote, I want Tulsi Gabbard to do well and hold the other candidates accountable. It's my hope that she might eventually end up VP, Secretary of Defense, or ideally Secretary of State. As Secretary of State she could really make a difference. If Bernie Sanders were not in the race, I'd vote for Tulsi Gabbard, but I can't vote for someone solely based on her being correct about matters abroad. Ending the wars is important, but so is making sure that Americans have single-payer and a living wage, and that's why Bernie Sanders gets my vote in the end. 

On 4/17/2019 at 4:34 PM, Adorkable said:

 

However, there is finally a candidate that has intrigued me, Pete Buttigieg. For those who don't know, Pete is the Mayor of South Bend Indiana. He is a Navy veteran. He is a graduate of Harvard University, Oxford University and a Rhodes Scholar. He speaks 7 languages. If elected, he would be the youngest US President (he is 37 years old now) and the first openly gay US President.

As of right now, he has conducted himself with intelligence, grace and dignity, something the US is sorely lacking. His response to the people of France was what I would expect from a world leader. He responded in French, saying the following: "The Cathedral of Notre Dame has been a gift of civilization to all humanity, and we are of one spirit with the French people this evening."


 

 


If this was written on Buttigieg's Tinder profile, I would totally swipe right. He seems like a fascinating guy who would be the best guest at a dinner party. And if I'm being honest, he's kinda hot. Unfortunately, what makes a great date does not necessarily make a great President. When he has talked about the issues, I have found myself greatly disappointed. Especially in regards to health care with the whole "Medicare for All is not realistic" shtick. I am not going to believe that America is incapable of doing something that every other industrialized democracy in the world has been doing for decades. 

And I would comment on other policy positions he's expressed but they're somewhat difficult to find. Less speeches about unity and civility, more "these are the precise things I will do to improve the lives of the American people." Compare that to Bernie Sanders, you can't find a clip where Bernie isn't talking about the issues - if a reporter asked him what his favorite kind of cheese was, Bernie would work single-payer and a living wage into the answer. 

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o_O
23 hours ago, Adorkable said:

Are you for or against the green new deal?

yes, but i highly doubt Mayor Pete is going to win the important states (PA, Wisconsin, Florida, Texas, and Michigan, and Ohio) 

 

15 hours ago, Trotsky said:

Compare that to Bernie Sanders, you can't find a clip where Bernie isn't talking about the issues - if a reporter asked him what his favorite kind of cheese was, Bernie would work single-payer and a living wage into the answer. 

exactly. Bernie gets to the point. Pete isn't going to do well in areas where it's moderate to conservative. 

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Adorkable
On 4/20/2019 at 3:47 AM, Trotsky said:


If this was written on Buttigieg's Tinder profile, I would totally swipe right. He seems like a fascinating guy who would be the best guest at a dinner party. And if I'm being honest, he's kinda hot. Unfortunately, what makes a great date does not necessarily make a great President. When he has talked about the issues, I have found myself greatly disappointed. Especially in regards to health care with the whole "Medicare for All is not realistic" shtick. I am not going to believe that America is incapable of doing something that every other industrialized democracy in the world has been doing for decades. 

And I would comment on other policy positions he's expressed but they're somewhat difficult to find. Less speeches about unity and civility, more "these are the precise things I will do to improve the lives of the American people." Compare that to Bernie Sanders, you can't find a clip where Bernie isn't talking about the issues - if a reporter asked him what his favorite kind of cheese was, Bernie would work single-payer and a living wage into the answer. 

I agree with you 100% about Mayor Pete. I even said that he intrigues me but you can't find much on the issues. However, I have to disagree on the Medicare for all issue. From what I understand, he is not saying Medicare for All won't work, but that it needs to be a step process and I agree with that 100%. Going from a private insurer base to medicare for all is a big change. Yes, I agree we can do it in the US and we have to do it in the US. There will be an increase in taxes that many people may not be able to afford in a flash cut or many people may not be willing to accept. Also consider the job losses. If private insurance is greatly reduced, then there will be layoffs. Of course there will be jobs for Medicare for all, but it won't cover everyone employed in the private sector.  However, if you do it gradually and where you allow people to make a decision about it and giving the chance for job markets to change, then it becomes much more palatable and the acceptable. But, I do definitely agree he has alot of work to do on the issues. His campaign website is just fluff or as you so aptly put, a Tinder profile. This is probably not the time for him yet, but I think he shows potential to be a great candidate.

I was a big supporter of Bernie in 2016 and I still really like him. I think he is honest, which is difficult to find in most humans, let alone a politician. I would be happy with him as the 2020 nominee. However, talking about the issues and having a viable realistic solution is another thing. I have read through where Bernie stands on the issues many times and while I agree with him 95% of the time, I often find myself asking: How? I often feel that he doesn't have an idea on how to get to the end goal or the ideas are often unrealistic. I also feel that he can get behind a cause without fully understanding the issue or the ramifications. I can give two examples. The first is the Amazon minimum wage issue. While the $15 minimum wage increase is a good thing there was more to it that Bernie didn't consider at first. The Amazon employees had a package where they received stock options and bonuses for productivity and attendance. When the minimum wage was raised, Amazon removed the bonuses and stock options. Many employees calculated that their overall compensation went down. They did contact Bernie and he went back to Amazon management, but this was after the fact. I don't know what the outcome was. But this is something that he should have considered before bringing up the fight because there is more to a compensation package than a straight salary. The other issue was the Verizon strike in 2016. Bernie got on the picket lines and protested with the Verizon workers. In theory, that is fine, because all workers deserve a fair compensation package. However, if Bernie had done the research he would have found out that the average Verizon union workers total compensation package is around $130K a year and their base pay is on average $80K a year. They even receive a pension. That is around 35% above the national average. I also really believe his age is an issue. This is a taxing job and if you look at every president he looks significantly older than when he started, much more than 4 or 8 years. I think it is very important for Bernie to wisely choose a running mate.

If the election was today, I would be casting my vote for Bernie. As of right now, I think he is the best candidate. However, this election is more about who can beat Trump than who is the best candidate.   

 

On 4/20/2019 at 7:44 PM, o_O said:

yes, but i highly doubt Mayor Pete is going to win the important states (PA, Wisconsin, Florida, Texas, and Michigan, and Ohio) 

 

 

What states you think Mayor Pete can win has nothing to do with the question I asked you. I asked you if you support A Green New Deal? 

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Ryan
On 4/20/2019 at 4:44 PM, o_O said:

exactly. Bernie gets to the point. Pete isn't going to do well in areas where it's moderate to conservative. 

Yeah...the same guy who got re-elected with 80% of the vote the same year Mike Pence got re-elected isn't going to do well in moderate to conservative areas 🙄

Pay attention to some conservative-leaning media. They are kind of afraid of Mayor Pete right now. He is realistic about his ideas and what he believes we can achieve. I honestly would love to see him in a debate against Trump because I think he could talk Trump into being an even bigger stammering idiot than he already is. 

As much as I was all about Bernie in 2016, there are at least three candidates in this race already that I put ahead of him now. I think that he absolutely needs to be a voice that dictates policy discussion, but I don't trust that he'd be able to beat Trump. The way he answered questions about his newfound millionaire status was absolutely atrocious and he made some comments that could easily be twisted around by the right when it comes to the whole capitalism vs. democratic socialism thing. I believe that Mayor Pete has BY FAR given the best answer when it comes to capitalism. 

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