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maryjanewhatsername

2018 - 2019 United States Government Shutdown

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Adorkable
5 hours ago, maryjanewhatsername said:

99% of the time in American politics impeachment doesn't happen. The one time it almost did with Richard Nixon he resigned to avoid impeachment. The only other time besides Trump that it was brought up and looked into was with Clinton. Based upon the track record, I don't expect it to do much. The fact that most Americans decided to even vote him into office with how ignorant he is gives me little hope. 

Actually, there have been 2 presidents impeached. The first was Andrew Johnson and the second was Bill Clinton. Both presidents were acquitted in trials held in the Senate. So yes, if Trump is impeached, as he should be if Michael Cohen is to be believed, he would most likely be acquitted in the Senate. Unless some republicans grow some balls. 

I watched Michael Cohen's testimony. I found him to be believable mostly because he is a creepy little shit who was backed into a corner. It was give Trump up or he takes the fall. Of course he isn't going to take the fall. Plus everything he said made perfect sense.  

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
9 hours ago, Billie Hoe said:

Will Michael Cohen's testimony have any impact at all? Or is this meaningless?

It's not Cohen's information that the Democrats want. His job was to provide a few threads to tug at and a list of names for the Democrats to subpoena next. He filled that role exactly as hoped.

 

9 hours ago, maryjanewhatsername said:

99% of the time in American politics impeachment doesn't happen. The one time it almost did with Richard Nixon he resigned to avoid impeachment. The only other time besides Trump that it was brought up and looked into was with Clinton. Based upon the track record, I don't expect it to do much. The fact that most Americans decided to even vote him into office with how ignorant he is gives me little hope. 

I think you're confusing impeachment with conviction. Impeachment is the act of the House of Representatives passing articles of impeachment to the Senate. It's closer to an indictment than anything else in the criminal justice system. It then falls to the Senate to conduct a trial, and if 2/3rds of the chamber to convict, the President is removed from office. There have been 2.5-ish instances of impeachment in US history, and I'm expecting this to become another one regardless of whether the merits of the case actually support removing the President. Andrew Johnson was impeached in the late 1860's in a political move, mostly because he pissed Congress off (sound familiar?). His Senate trial fell one vote short of conviction, because as pissed off as Congress was at Johnson, the lack of a Vice President meant that the Presidency would have passed to a Senator who would have been even more of a nightmare to deal with. Clinton's impeachment was 100% politically motivated, and it ultimately fell flat on its face with only half of the Senate voting to convict on one count, and less than half voting to convict on the other. Low-dollar missteps being trumped up--pun intended--into an impeachment case is a great way to make sure that the President you're trying to dispose of emerges with higher approval ratings than ever because he's been the target of your BS attack. If the Democrats' goal here is simply to get rid of Trump, and I think it is, they should tread lightly and learn from the mistakes of Republicans before them.

Nixon was never technically impeached. Articles of impeachment had been passed by the House Judiciary Committee but not voted on by the full floor yet, hence the "2.5" number. He resigned after being told by several advisors that the articles would pass the House, and that at least 80 Senators would vote to convict no matter what happened in the trial.

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maryjanewhatsername
37 minutes ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

It's not Cohen's information that the Democrats want. His job was to provide a few threads to tug at and a list of names for the Democrats to subpoena next. He filled that role exactly as hoped.

 

I think you're confusing impeachment with conviction. Impeachment is the act of the House of Representatives passing articles of impeachment to the Senate. It's closer to an indictment than anything else in the criminal justice system. It then falls to the Senate to conduct a trial, and if 2/3rds of the chamber to convict, the President is removed from office. There have been 2.5-ish instances of impeachment in US history, and I'm expecting this to become another one regardless of whether the merits of the case actually support removing the President. Andrew Johnson was impeached in the late 1860's in a political move, mostly because he pissed Congress off (sound familiar?). His Senate trial fell one vote short of conviction, because as pissed off as Congress was at Johnson, the lack of a Vice President meant that the Presidency would have passed to a Senator who would have been even more of a nightmare to deal with. Clinton's impeachment was 100% politically motivated, and it ultimately fell flat on its face with only half of the Senate voting to convict on one count, and less than half voting to convict on the other. Low-dollar missteps being trumped up--pun intended--into an impeachment case is a great way to make sure that the President you're trying to dispose of emerges with higher approval ratings than ever because he's been the target of your BS attack. If the Democrats' goal here is simply to get rid of Trump, and I think it is, they should tread lightly and learn from the mistakes of Republicans before them.

Nixon was never technically impeached. Articles of impeachment had been passed by the House Judiciary Committee but not voted on by the full floor yet, hence the "2.5" number. He resigned after being told by several advisors that the articles would pass the House, and that at least 80 Senators would vote to convict no matter what happened in the trial.

Thank you for this correction. Holy shit! I think I am thinking of conviction though. Either way, hopefully it does something to get closer to booting Trump out of office. 

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
28 minutes ago, maryjanewhatsername said:

Thank you for this correction. Holy shit! I think I am thinking of conviction though. Either way, hopefully it does something to get closer to booting Trump out of office. 

"I knew what he wanted me to do," isn't the sort of statement you impeach a President on. The Republicans wasted a lot of time and fresh air with all the barking they did about Cohen's credibility, but they made one excellent point towards the end: based upon Cohen's own testimony, Trump never told him to take any of the actions that got him sent to prison. It's hard to place someone at the head of a conspiracy if you can't prove that they were directing the actions of others.

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maryjanewhatsername
3 minutes ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

"I knew what he wanted me to do," isn't the sort of statement you impeach a President on. The Republicans wasted a lot of time and fresh air with all the barking they did about Cohen's credibility, but they made one excellent point towards the end: based upon Cohen's own testimony, Trump never told him to take any of the actions that got him sent to prison. It's hard to place someone at the head of a conspiracy if you can't prove that they were directing the actions of others.

This is true. It's hard to put someone else in charge of blame when you really can't tie it in. 

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WhiteTim

personally I don't want Trump impeached cause that'd put Pence in charge

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
3 hours ago, Adorkable said:

Pence would be far better than Trump. His personal behavior would not be embarrassing. And while his views are embarrassing and often disgusting, he would never get anything past congress. Plus, Pelosi would have him on a very short leash for the short time he would be in office.   

I freaking wish John Kasich had accepted Trump's offer to be the VP.

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Adorkable
1 hour ago, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

I freaking wish John Kasich had accepted Trump's offer to be the VP.

That would have been better.

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Trotsky
On 2/28/2019 at 12:26 PM, Adorkable said:

Pence would be far better than Trump. His personal behavior would not be embarrassing. And while his views are embarrassing and often disgusting, he would never get anything past congress. Plus, Pelosi would have him on a very short leash for the short time he would be in office.   

 

If Pelosi does her damn job then Trump shouldn't be getting anything past Congress either. 

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maryjanewhatsername
16 hours ago, Trotsky said:

 

If Pelosi does her damn job then Trump shouldn't be getting anything past Congress either. 

It's congress. Does anyone do their job?? 

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Adorkable
On 3/3/2019 at 3:28 AM, Trotsky said:

 

If Pelosi does her damn job then Trump shouldn't be getting anything past Congress either. 

And he hasn't gotten anything passed since the democrats took control of the house. Even with the bill to stop the national emergency, they only need 4 republicans to cross lines for it to pass and they already have 3, with others saying they are thinking about it. And yes, even if it passes the senate, Trump would veto it. And if that happens, congress can file a lawsuit, which Pelosi has hinted she might do. Then there are the lawsuits filed by the states, so this will end up going to the supreme court. 

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Tre's Busted Drumkit
On 3/3/2019 at 3:28 AM, Trotsky said:

 

If Pelosi does her damn job then Trump shouldn't be getting anything past Congress either. 

That approach to things gets Trump re-elected. Trust me. If Trump gets two years of whining about how the Democrats are blocking everything he tries to pass and that's why he can't keep his campaign promises, he wins.

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Trotsky
On 3/4/2019 at 10:25 PM, Tre's Busted Drumkit said:

That approach to things gets Trump re-elected. Trust me. If Trump gets two years of whining about how the Democrats are blocking everything he tries to pass and that's why he can't keep his campaign promises, he wins.

 

Republicans did just fine in 2016. They did more than fine, they did great. They ran on obstruction, they proudly hit the campaign trail bragging how they kept Obama from nominating a new Supreme Court justice, turned Obama into a lame duck President, and that worked out well for them. 

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maryjanewhatsername
12 hours ago, Trotsky said:

 

Republicans did just fine in 2016. They did more than fine, they did great. They ran on obstruction, they proudly hit the campaign trail bragging how they kept Obama from nominating a new Supreme Court justice, turned Obama into a lame duck President, and that worked out well for them. 

That's what I'm worried about. They've gotten really good at manipulating images (on both sides, left and right wing). Also the fact that some (not a whole lot but a few) Americans only look into articles/news that support their views. So if they see a manipulated, distorted image or story but it supports their views, they don't take the time to look into it and figure out whether or not it's true. The media is only getting more and more confusing to muddle through. 

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