Beerjeezus Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I believe philosophy and cultural criticism are vital to understanding art so why not have a thread for it here. Feel free to share any thoughts you have, preferably those that have something to do with analyzing gd lyrics and philpsophy. I start: American Idiot: A Marxist Take Each character in the story represents a part of society. Johnny represents the people - at first he's oblivious of the idea of revolution and believes he can change his life for the better by moving to a big city. It's only after he moves when he realizes he can't escape the misery of his existence - people can't be truly happy under capitalism. And this moment is also the moment when he meets Whatsername and falls in love with her. Whatsername represents revolution. Johnny loves her - he is infatuated by the idea of revolution but he's unable to get through with it. He admires her because she represents his deepest wish that he's not able to make happen. And that's when St. Jimmy makes an appearance. St. Jimmy is a reactionary. He represents a force that distracts people from pursuing the revolution. The story is quite literal in saying he's using drugs as the means of distraction, but the drugs are a mere metaphor of other distractions that exist. Drugs are just one of many ways to escape reality and postpone a solution of the problem (in this case the revolution). It goes without saying that it's no coincidence that Jimmy is a saint - it's a clear and simple allure to Karl Marx's famous quote that "religion is the opium of the masses". When Whatsername breaks up with Johnny, it's actually the people rejecting the idea of revolution, being too cowardly to seize the means of production. This story is so touching to many people because it's the story of the 20th century western society. The sixties were the era of infatuation with the idea of revolution. Revolution that never happened. To this day it's remembered by many as the golden age of positive societal changes, but the truth is that the society "went back home", back to the small town suburban existence and it's only the memory of the better, almost revolutionary time that allows people to realize what's wrong with their lives. The ending when Jimmy dies and Johnny comes back home is a very dark but accurate portrayal of late capitalism. Both without any hope for revolution and withought any escape from reality. Johnny realizes now that there's nowhere he can go and that knows he can't be happy under capitalism but at the same time he has given up on pursuing the revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Well, Billie Joe directly references philosophy in Deadbeat Holiday: "philosophy's a liar when your home is your headstone" This direct meta reference to the value of philosopy is quite philosophical in itself. Your home is your headstone, meaning we all die in the end so thinking about the bigger picture is pointless. I also always thought Shoplifter had a wider meaning about modern day consumerism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: Well, Billie Joe directly references philosophy in Deadbeat Holiday: "philosophy's a liar when your home is your headstone" This direct meta reference to the value of philosopy is quite philosophical in itself. Your home is your headstone, meaning we all die in the end. Your grave is your final resting place so thinking about the bigger picture is pointless. I also always thought Shoplifter had a wider meaning about modern day consumerism. Yes, this line from deadbeat holiday is intriguing. It's interesting to look at how varied are the exististentialist ideas displayed in different songs. The line you've mentioned and even entire Deadbeat Holiday is saying the same thing as Albert Camus in The Myth of Sisyphus - there's no inherent point in living but that's why you shouldn't give up. The fact that there's no meaning of life isn't a reason for suicide. It needs to be accepted and the life lived despite this knowledge. "Celebrate your own decay/there's a sign that's hanging high/but at least you're not alone" - the character in the song has realized the meaninglessness of existence and he's finding solace in it so he can enjoy his life despite knowing it's meaningless. Now compare this with Still Breathing. That's another song with existentialist undertones but a very different message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacejunkie punk Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Get your philosophy from a bumper sticker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 25 minutes ago, pacejunkie punk said: Get your philosophy from a bumper sticker I like this line as he’s basically saying philosophy is bullshit and you can pick something at random by just looking at the car in front of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 This has stayed open for an hour which makes it a record, let's put the seriousness aside for a moment and celebrate: 1 hour ago, DeJennsitized said: I like this line as he’s basically saying philosophy is bullshit and you can pick something at random by just looking at the car in front of you. It's another line that's saying there's no meaning in life and it's from Warning too. It might be symbolic that the album ends with Macy's Day Parade - another song that talks about a lack of meaning but this time it's talking about materialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said: It's another line that's saying there's no meaning in life and it's from Warning too. It might be symbolic that the album ends with Macy's Day Parade - another song that talks about a lack of meaning but this time it's talking about materialism. Warning is probably the most philosophical album. A lot of existential crisis on there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billie Hoe Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, DeJennsitized said: This direct meta reference to the value of philosopy is quite philosophical in itself. Your home is your headstone, meaning we all die in the end so thinking about the bigger picture is pointless. That is an interesting take! I always interpreted this particular line as the unwillingness, cowardice or the lack of motivation to take risks and do something extraordinary and meaningful with your life, born out of fear losing the certainty, comfort and safety of home - something or someone who always has your back. As we grow older, we become less spontaneous and more rooted in our fear and habits - we haven't started any revolution years ago, why should we start now? Or even the endless procrastination of finally standing up, the naive belief that you have time and will live forever, until you finally get the late realization that we only have one life and should have done something with it while we had the chance, but now it's too late - our home turned into our headstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 minute ago, DeJennsitized said: Warning is probably the most philosophical album. A lot of existential crisis on there! I agree, Blood Sex & Booze, of all Warning songs, has the deepest hidden meaning. It's not about masochism but challenging authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryjanewhatsername Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Jane Lannister said: I believe philosophy and cultural criticism are vital to understanding art so why not have a thread for it here. Feel free to share any thoughts you have, preferably those that have something to do with analyzing gd lyrics and philpsophy. I start: American Idiot: A Marxist Take Each character in the story represents a part of society. Johnny represents the people - at first he's oblivious of the idea of revolution and believes he can change his life for the better by moving to a big city. It's only after he moves when he realizes he can't escape the misery of his existence - people can't be truly happy under capitalism. And this moment is also the moment when he meets Whatsername and falls in love with her. Whatsername represents revolution. Johnny loves her - he is infatuated by the idea of revolution but he's unable to get through with it. He admires her because she represents his deepest wish that he's not able to make happen. And that's when St. Jimmy makes an appearance. St. Jimmy is a reactionary. He represents a force that distracts people from pursuing the revolution. The story is quite literal in saying he's using drugs as the means of distraction, but the drugs are a mere metaphor of other distractions that exist. Drugs are just one of many ways to escape reality and postpone a solution of the problem (in this case the revolution). It goes without saying that it's no coincidence that Jimmy is a saint - it's a clear and simple allure to Karl Marx's famous quote that "religion is the opium of the masses". When Whatsername breaks up with Johnny, it's actually the people rejecting the idea of revolution, being too cowardly to seize the means of production. This story is so touching to many people because it's the story of the 20th century western society. The sixties were the era of infatuation with the idea of revolution. Revolution that never happened. To this day it's remembered by many as the golden age of positive societal changes, but the truth is that the society "went back home", back to the small town suburban existence and it's only the memory of the better, almost revolutionary time that allows people to realize what's wrong with their lives. The ending when Jimmy dies and Johnny comes back home is a very dark but accurate portrayal of late capitalism. Both without any hope for revolution and withought any escape from reality. Johnny realizes now that there's nowhere he can go and that knows he can't be happy under capitalism but at the same time he has given up on pursuing the revolution. Holy shit. This makes so much sense to me. You literally are a genius. <<also I'm obsessed w/ your posts and you're awesome so>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 hours ago, maryjanewhatsername said: Holy shit. This makes so much sense to me. You literally are a genius. <<also I'm obsessed w/ your posts and you're awesome so>> I'm just shitposting and making it look like it's Quality Content TM because the forum is too dead to troll normally but I'm glad it actually makes sense for someone and you enjoy it because that's even better! I think it accounts for how good Billie's lyrics are that it's possible to make theories like this and they make (at least some) sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jane Lannister said: I'm just shitposting and making it look like it's Quality Content TM because the forum is too dead to troll normally but I'm glad it actually makes sense for someone and you enjoy it because that's even better! I think it accounts for how good Billie's lyrics are that it's possible to make theories like this and they make (at least some) sense. That moment when you pretend to post quality content but it's so good that it's actual quality content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I love your take on this! There must be endless examples of Green Day lyrics that directly or indirectly reference philosophy but I never thought of it that way before. Especially with the way Billie writes, he was already looking at things in philosophical terms and having existential crises as a teenager on 39/Smooth and Kerplunk with songs like 16 or One of My Lies. One thing that comes to mind is in Forever Now he references Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" with "I thought therefore I was, well I can't really figure it out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeJennsitized Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 hours ago, Billie Hoe said: That is an interesting take! I always interpreted this particular line as the unwillingness, cowardice or the lack of motivation to take risks and do something extraordinary and meaningful with your life, born out of fear losing the certainty, comfort and safety of home - something or someone who always has your back. As we grow older, we become less spontaneous and more rooted in our fear and habits - we haven't started any revolution years ago, why should we start now? Or even the endless procrastination of finally standing up, the naive belief that you have time and will live forever, until you finally get the late realization that we only have one life and should have done something with it while we had the chance, but now it's too late - our home turned into our headstone. This is a better take than mine! It's interesting because Billie's lyrics tend to show a certain cynicism for analysing things, and yet they're also so good that it's pretty easy to philosophize about them. Last of the American Girls is a good one. It could be about the death of punk, or maybe anarchism, as an ideal....maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said: That moment when you pretend to post quality content but it's so good that it's actual quality content I was just looking for an excuse to call St. Jimmy a reactionary and since that moment I truly kant stop. Let's look at 21CB: It repeats the narrative of people and revolution, but it takes place in a more hopeless universe - the one American Idiot left us with. The story is less clear this time, but again, the revolution never happens and the protagonists get distracted by drugs again. The main difference is the somewhat hopeful ending that however, doesn't declare hope the revolution will eventually happen. It just states that the fight isn't over. It's worth noting the last song ends the same the first song starts which hints at repetition of periods of "revolutionary times" and stagnation. (Or is it the Eternal Return? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hermione said: I love your take on this! There must be endless examples of Green Day lyrics that directly or indirectly reference philosophy but I never thought of it that way before. Especially with the way Billie writes, he was already looking at things in philosophical terms and having existential crises as a teenager on 39/Smooth and Kerplunk with songs like 16 or One of My Lies. One thing that comes to mind is in Forever Now he references Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" with "I thought therefore I was, well I can't really figure it out" Yes, the early songs amaze me. Most of the early albums are just the classic girl songs and then the existentialism hits. Relatable teen experience That one is nice! They way we learned it in school, what Descartes meant was just "I got something going on inside my head, I guess that means I exist", which sounds dumb and thankfully it's not what he meant - in fact, he was talking about doubt and looking for something he could be sure is true. And the conclusion he made was that the only thing he can't doubt is his own doubting awareness. Anything else can be wrong or an illusion, but the philosopher's mind must be real and is the only thing that can't be questioned (because it is the source of all questioning). So the FN line is saying "I didn't question myself in the past but now I do." At first glance it looked to me like "he put the sentence into the past tense EDGY" but it actually has a different meaning that way. Mind blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billie Hoe Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Here's the proof that Billie is a philosopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryjanewhatsername Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Billie Hoe said: Here's the proof that Billie is a philosopher OH MY GOD THIS SCREEN SHOT, ICONIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerjeezus Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Tbh Kant doesn't know fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.