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How the Hell did I work so hard to be born this way?


Otis Big

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Thread worthy :P

I interpret it in a pretty straightforward way as realizing that there was a process that created who you are. No one's "born this way" because there's a lot that shapes a person.

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On 9/3/2018 at 8:20 AM, Jane Lannister said:

Thread worthy :P

I interpret it in a pretty straightforward way as realizing that there was a process that created who you are. No one's "born this way" because there's a lot that shapes a person.

I disagree. 

Like most Billie lyrics past the mid 90s, his lyrics are pretty much anything BUT straight forward. Even the line that starts the song “My name is Billie and I’m freaking out” which in and of itself sounds like he’s giving up and throwing his hands up in the air but what he’s saying is “okay, I admit I have a problem. I let myself free to the universe and admit I have a problem that I need to learn to live life over in a new way”. Essentially the 12 step version of “my name is Billie and I’m a drug addict and alcoholic” but with all that other stuff implied.

The entire song is full of double entendres where if you don’t look into the lyrics will sound like one thing when they actually mean the opposite almost.

”How did I work so hard to be born this way” and then he goes on to say he “can never read and write so well but I can play the guitar until it  hurts like hell” so I take the line “how the hell did I work so hard to be born this way” is sort of an inverted way of saying the more understandable “I was born this way so I have to work like hell to do it now.” as if it’s hard to do what I do and stay off of drugs and alcohol. Any former addict can attest to this feeling of how to live a new life which you have to do.

I didn’t do a good job of explaining this but it’s  same as the revolution part of the song where he says (as I’ve said here before) “I won’t wait on line no more, I’ll put it off another day”, another line in this song where the lyrics are simplistic but tricky as at a glance it sounds like he will procrastinate but what he’s saying in typical Billie fashion is “I’ll procrastinate another day”. Song is full of double negatives and double entendres. I think this is one of them.  This is the wrapping up of the understated and definite narrative of the album and has a “happy”ish ending on the survival and a call to arms on the revolution.

Could be wrong 

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Well, that line tells me that is the end of the process, or "finally"understanding why you are the way you are. So, the thing on this is like "all this pain and travel to learn something so simple about myself"

:)

 

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On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, LaughingClock said:

I disagree. 

Like most Billie lyrics past the mid 90s, his lyrics are pretty much anything BUT straight forward. Even the line that starts the song “My name is Billie and I’m freaking out” which in and of itself sounds like he’s giving up and throwing his hands up in the air but what he’s saying is “okay, I admit I have a problem. I let myself free to the universe and admit I have a problem that I need to learn to live life over in a new way”. Essentially the 12 step version of “my name is Billie and I’m a drug addict and alcoholic” but with all that other stuff implied.

The entire song is full of double entendres where if you don’t look into the lyrics will sound like one thing when they actually mean the opposite almost.

”How did I work so hard to be born this way” and then he goes on to say he “can never read and write so well but I can play the guitar until it  hurts like hell” so I take the line “how the hell did I work so hard to be born this way” is sort of an inverted way of saying the more understandable “I was born this way so I have to work like hell to do it now.” as if it’s hard to do what I do and stay off of drugs and alcohol. Any former addict can attest to this feeling of how to live a new life which you have to do.

I didn’t do a good job of explaining this but it’s  same as the revolution part of the song where he says (as I’ve said here before) “I won’t wait on line no more, I’ll put it off another day”, another line in this song where the lyrics are simplistic but tricky as at a glance it sounds like he will procrastinate but what he’s saying in typical Billie fashion is “I’ll procrastinate another day”. Song is full of double negatives and double entendres. I think this is one of them.  This is the wrapping up of the understated and definite narrative of the album and has a “happy”ish ending on the survival and a call to arms on the revolution.

Could be wrong 

Plus the bonus and clear nod to Chuck Berry- lyrics were something along the lines of Johnny B Goode could never read or write so well/ but he could play the guitar like a ringing bell...

I love this topic since it's one of my favorite lyrics and something I've thought long and hard about. I always took the whole "working so hard to be born this way" line as a semi pat on the back in some respects. As in, hell, I may look like I was born to do this and make it look easy, but it's something I've worked my ass off to do and perfect. And I want you to know that I'm proud of the blood sweat and tears I've put into this thing. 

 

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11 hours ago, TimmyChunks said:

Plus the bonus and clear nod to Chuck Berry- lyrics were something along the lines of Johnny B Goode could never read or write so well/ but he could play the guitar like a ringing bell...

I love this topic since it's one of my favorite lyrics and something I've thought long and hard about. I always took the whole "working so hard to be born this way" line as a semi pat on the back in some respects. As in, hell, I may look like I was born to do this and make it look easy, but it's something I've worked my ass off to do and perfect. And I want you to know that I'm proud of the blood sweat and tears I've put into this thing. 

 

Well said brother. And hell yeah on CB!  There is no mistaking that is an homage.

Another understated homage to Chuck is Brain Stew which a lot of people think the rif is a bite of AC/DC who Billie loves but their playing style and his (and Billie’s) version of the “Duck Walk” is directly from Chuck.

 

Original Duck Walk

Go to :50

 

 

Agnus Young version:

 

 

And of course Billies homage and song that inspired the Brain Stew riff: (Ac/Dc and specifically Agnus is a HUGE influence on GD’s musical sound. If you love Green Day you should check out AC/DC and some choice stuff from Scorpions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Grubby Poop said:

OMG Does this mean GD is touring with ACDC!!!!!!!!! 

Ive heard they may or may not be currently looking for a good front man.

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9 minutes ago, The Insider said:

Ive heard they may or may not be currently looking for a good front man.

Uh oh, is that good or bad?

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On 9/5/2018 at 3:42 AM, LaughingClock said:

I disagree. 

The entire song is full of double entendres where if you don’t look into the lyrics will sound like one thing when they actually mean the opposite almost.

”How did I work so hard to be born this way” and then he goes on to say he “can never read and write so well but I can play the guitar until it  hurts like hell” so I take the line “how the hell did I work so hard to be born this way” is sort of an inverted way of saying the more understandable “I was born this way so I have to work like hell to do it now.” as if it’s hard to do what I do and stay off of drugs and alcohol. Any former addict can attest to this feeling of how to live a new life which you have to do.

I didn’t do a good job of explaining this but it’s  same as the revolution part of the song where he says (as I’ve said here before) “I won’t wait on line no more, I’ll put it off another day”, another line in this song where the lyrics are simplistic but tricky as at a glance it sounds like he will procrastinate but what he’s saying in typical Billie fashion is “I’ll procrastinate another day”. Song is full of double negatives and double entendres. I think this is one of them.  This is the wrapping up of the understated and definite narrative of the album and has a “happy”ish ending on the survival and a call to arms on the revolution.

Could be wrong 

I also differ from Jane's interpretation, and from yours too for most part.

To me Billie saying "how the hell did I work so hard to be born this way" is a way (inverted indeed) to say "I was born this way, I know now that I can't change things about myself, it's the way I am, although I worked so hard to get better with myself, and over things in myself (the work he's kept doing all his life by songwriting) but they are just the way I am, the way I was born. And when I think of it, it's freaking me out to know these things will always be here". I think the difference with your interpretation is I don't think he speaks strictly (not in this line, anyway) of the difficulty to stay away from the addiction, but of a part of him, that he realizes he can't change and that he's "born this way", which incidentally made him turn to addictions. I think the "work" he mentions in this line is not necessarily (it could be, but from the first time I heard that line I immediately understood something else) the work to stay clean and sober but the struggle to live, to go on, from the time he was born, with his difference and his personality.

As for the revolution line and the whole song in general, I don't feel it as you must understand the contrary of the apparently most obvious meaning most of the time (I don't even think there is any obvious meaning), though I do think there are many double entendres, and we have different interpretations of the revolution thing in this song. I can't hear it either ways that when he's saying 'I want to start a revolution, I want to hear it on my radio, I'll put it off another day" he's referring to the actual process of procrastinating he's been doing many years, failing to get rid of his addiction, and he explains that whenever thinking of it and thinking that he should stop, he was diverted by his will to start a revolution and hear it on his radio. It's like: "there's more important, more urgent than getting over my addictions. I want a change in society, I want to continue writing my revolution (his songs) and hearing it on the radio. I'll put my addictions off another day." So I don't think it's a double negative here, he's just referring to the way he used to function. Referring to him being unable to stop, unable to take care of himself, preferring to keep running (I relate it to that line in Still Breathing) through the process of songwriting because it's something he's always done, that feels safe and makes him think of something else, be and do something else, than addiction. And he doesn't "want to think about tomorrow", that means he doesn't want to think that maybe tomorrow he won't be alive if he continues like this, he just wants to keep living for the moment with no care for the future, it's less scary that way, and he doesn't "want to think about the -" (I think the scream is just replacing the words because he doesn't want to go there and it's too difficult to think of it), "it doesn't matter anyway" was a way of convincing himself to not take care of his addictions. 

One of the most obscure lines in Forever Now for me is "I want a new conspiracy, and the silence of a thousand cries". I think, though I can imagine it's not the most common interpretation, he means that every bad news, every political conspiracy, the same he denounces and that makes people freak out and cry about (the thousand cried) is something that diverts him even more so from stopping his course to get rid of addiction, because there's continuously bad breaking news that creates general turmoil and makes him want to reflect on it and write about it instead of taking time for himself. The word "silence" is I think the most tricky one, in what way, for him, could a thousand cries be a silence? I think it may be a silence in a way it silences his worries and thoughts about addiction, when he was still in that, because it gives him other stuff to think about and get moving on. Also, it's ironic but it's a relief to feel he has stuff to work on and hear another silence than his own inner one, the same that he wants to fill with substances. And the one line right after that: "so hurry up, I want a better way to die", followed by the reprise of Somewhere Now, is the moment when he realizes that to go on, to keep living and doing what he does, getting on with revolution that always feels urgent, the first urgency is to get over his problems. And that's the moment in the song where he seems to pause, and we can see that even more in live performances.

I do think that the final line repeated 8 times is a way to say "I won't stand in line for my addictions no more. I know that I am like I am now but I won't accept to let it happen again when I see these addictions waiting for me. No more." So yeah happy ending, a way to say whatever my vulnerabilities, I won't fall in the same autodestructive scheme again. I will continue my revolution and looking out for myself at the same time. And the safe feeling comes from that, along with fully accepting how he is even after having worked so much maybe to change, and no longer from wanting to avoid thinking of addictions that felt too frightening to deal with.

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For me, ‘How the hell did I work so hard to be born this way’ is Billie expressing his anger that’s he’s worked so hard, and yet is still limited by unchangeable elements of his personality and life situation (ie. how he was born).  His frustration that he’s worked so hard, but is still can’t escape the fact that so much of his life is predetermined by things outside his control.

It’s really interesting reading everyone’s interpretations of this though, seems like this line is a particularly open one.

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38 minutes ago, The Bellie said:

And the one line right after that: "so hurry up, I want a better way to die", followed by the reprise of Somewhere Now, is the moment when he realizes that to go on, to keep living and doing what he does, getting on with revolution that always feels urgent, the first urgency is to get over his problems. And that's the moment in the song where he seems to pause, and we can see that even more in live performances.

This part of the song can be interpreted through Nietzsche's idea of eternal return: he realizes he's destined to live this life forever - that's why he wants a "better way to die" but the same time he's accepting it and making the best of it, hence replacing the "dull life" with "full life" in the SN repetition. 

It's like he's answering this question: "What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.'"

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3 hours ago, The Bellie said:

I also differ from Jane's interpretation, and from yours too for most part.

To me Billie saying "how the hell did I work so hard to be born this way" is a way (inverted indeed) to say "I was born this way, I know now that I can't change things about myself, it's the way I am, although I worked so hard to get better with myself, and over things in myself (the work he's kept doing all his life by songwriting) but they are just the way I am, the way I was born. And when I think of it, it's freaking me out to know these things will always be here". I think the difference with your interpretation is I don't think he speaks strictly (not in this line, anyway) of the difficulty to stay away from the addiction, but of a part of him, that he realizes he can't change and that he's "born this way", which incidentally made him turn to addictions. I think the "work" he mentions in this line is not necessarily (it could be, but from the first time I heard that line I immediately understood something else) the work to stay clean and sober but the struggle to live, to go on, from the time he was born, with his difference and his personality.

As for the revolution line and the whole song in general, I don't feel it as you must understand the contrary of the apparently most obvious meaning most of the time (I don't even think there is any obvious meaning), though I do think there are many double entendres, and we have different interpretations of the revolution thing in this song. I can't hear it either ways that when he's saying 'I want to start a revolution, I want to hear it on my radio, I'll put it off another day" he's referring to the actual process of procrastinating he's been doing many years, failing to get rid of his addiction, and he explains that whenever thinking of it and thinking that he should stop, he was diverted by his will to start a revolution and hear it on his radio. It's like: "there's more important, more urgent than getting over my addictions. I want a change in society, I want to continue writing my revolution (his songs) and hearing it on the radio. I'll put my addictions off another day." So I don't think it's a double negative here, he's just referring to the way he used to function. Referring to him being unable to stop, unable to take care of himself, preferring to keep running (I relate it to that line in Still Breathing) through the process of songwriting because it's something he's always done, that feels safe and makes him think of something else, be and do something else, than addiction. And he doesn't "want to think about tomorrow", that means he doesn't want to think that maybe tomorrow he won't be alive if he continues like this, he just wants to keep living for the moment with no care for the future, it's less scary that way, and he doesn't "want to think about the -" (I think the scream is just replacing the words because he doesn't want to go there and it's too difficult to think of it), "it doesn't matter anyway" was a way of convincing himself to not take care of his addictions. 

One of the most obscure lines in Forever Now for me is "I want a new conspiracy, and the silence of a thousand cries". I think, though I can imagine it's not the most common interpretation, he means that every bad news, every political conspiracy, the same he denounces and that makes people freak out and cry about (the thousand cried) is something that diverts him even more so from stopping his course to get rid of addiction, because there's continuously bad breaking news that creates general turmoil and makes him want to reflect on it and write about it instead of taking time for himself. The word "silence" is I think the most tricky one, in what way, for him, could a thousand cries be a silence? I think it may be a silence in a way it silences his worries and thoughts about addiction, when he was still in that, because it gives him other stuff to think about and get moving on. Also, it's ironic but it's a relief to feel he has stuff to work on and hear another silence than his own inner one, the same that he wants to fill with substances. And the one line right after that: "so hurry up, I want a better way to die", followed by the reprise of Somewhere Now, is the moment when he realizes that to go on, to keep living and doing what he does, getting on with revolution that always feels urgent, the first urgency is to get over his problems. And that's the moment in the song where he seems to pause, and we can see that even more in live performances.

I do think that the final line repeated 8 times is a way to say "I won't stand in line for my addictions no more. I know that I am like I am now but I won't accept to let it happen again when I see these addictions waiting for me. No more." So yeah happy ending, a way to say whatever my vulnerabilities, I won't fall in the same autodestructive scheme again. I will continue my revolution and looking out for myself at the same time. And the safe feeling comes from that, along with fully accepting how he is even after having worked so much maybe to change, and no longer from wanting to avoid thinking of addictions that felt too frightening to deal with.

On the first part, I don't disagree with you at all. I think you did a better job stated what I was trying to say than I did.


I don't usually post an opinion on other's interpretations but on your second part, it makes no sense for the song.  This album has two definitive narratives.  One about the noise around him as he quits drugs and one is the successful but hard part of quitting drugs which is how to live your life in this new way when this isn't how you were built.

Again, its a feeling and a worry that every addict has.  I am sure he took some poetic license with the triumph but not much because he doesn't say it's all roses but he does say it's scary to look at forever this way (where in the part that is it's equal part of FN on SN) when he says "How did life on the wild side ever get so dull" and completes it with "how did life on the wild side ever get so FULL" on the other side of the album. I would consider your interpretation if that line wasn't there because as I've said here before, I didn't understand the song when I thought he was saying "dull" again untie the Paladium show which was my first of the season and I could clearly hear "full" to come home and find out that's what he indeed said.

I love your breakdown of seemingly inconspicuous lyrics such as "I want a new conspiracy and the silence of a thousand cries" is one of the most cryptic in the song.

I have to strongly disagree with your interpretation that all these things (revolution, societal breakdown) and all that is not stopping his ability to quit drugs (firstly, that didn't happen, he did go sober), also he is referring to the noise it seems like when you are going through this very difficult process. It's a powerful thing on the mind and can make you feel like you're going crazy but lucky for us at the end of it was a lot of great songs, and I am not referring to RevRad.

Also, the "I am not going stand in line no more" is back to the revolution part of the story and it's harking back to songs about revolution. "I am not going to stand in line no more", "I'll put it off another day".  Yes you are correct, you could and should under normal circumstances take those words at their face, but this isn't a conversation, its a song and not taking into account the story, the lyrics around it and everything else is to pretend they aren't there.  Your breakdown while interesting doesn't frankly make a lot of sense (but for the first part which I agree).  You must put everything inside of this universe and not in the one we live in.  This is a triumphant song, although it's not a "Mission Accomplished", it's certain the tie up.


To put it another way "There is no place like home." is just a sentence to take on it's face but in The Wizard of Oz it's the catharsis of the whole film. The whole lesson (she just had to repeat that the whole adventure).  The way for her to win yet it's just a simple sentence.

2 hours ago, Second favourite son said:

For me, ‘How the hell did I work so hard to be born this way’ is Billie expressing his anger that’s he’s worked so hard, and yet is still limited by unchangeable elements of his personality and life situation (ie. how he was born).  His frustration that he’s worked so hard, but is still can’t escape the fact that so much of his life is predetermined by things outside his control.

It’s really interesting reading everyone’s interpretations of this though, seems like this line is a particularly open one.

We could have 5 pages or more on every line in this song.  Hell, this is even one of the more benign li

 

What I think we all pretty much agree but I guess you’re the only one who can “read or write so well”. ;)

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@LaughingClock what I feel about this song does make sense for me (otherwise I wouldn't feel that way, I guess) even if my rendition of it in words is not perfect. Even if it were, I think we do, anyways, have diverse interpretations on some stuff. And that's of course okay for me. Once again I imagine my understanding of the song may be an uncommon one but it has been so for 2 years since the first time I heard it. I'm putting it in words now, but it's not something I even had to figure out. I felt it, precisely like this, from the 1st time. I just want to say, in response to your own response:

I didn't mean to say that "revolution and social breakdown" are in themselves "stopping Billie's ability to quit drugs". I think when you are an "addict-type" of person (and I am one, I don't really like or care about it, but a good friend of mine just thought today she should tell me that I feel and I do stuff in an addictive way all the time - and she was notably speaking about my passion for Billie... and I just responded, I am that kind of person, but when it only does me good, I won't turn away from it) you are just always addicted to something, it's your way of functioning, it can be good or bad but it's the way you react to everything happening, the surrounding noise that can feel empty, and also everything good and bad happening to you that can quickly feel overwhelming, in a way you have a hard time finding an appropriate way to deal with all of it. You use the addictions to fill the void as to get away from the overwhelming. To find yourself, in a way, where you can't find yourself anywhere else.

The addictions, good or bad, feel like a safe place. It isn't really a choice ("born this way") but at the same time you can choose not to be auto destructive in what you do, even if you continue to do things extremely. What's happening around Billie makes him react and he is the kind of person to react extremely, it does't mean it always has to turn in bad addictions. In the past, it could have been that, now he has discovered another safety, in preserving himself from these addictions. 

To me the "rain and roses" in Still Breathing are also a reference to every sad and joyful things things that happen to you, to which you're used to react in your own extreme way, that sort of defines you, with the addictions that are familiar to you, and it's all about wanting to start to preserve yourself, not destroy yourself anymore while reacting to it. "My head's above the rain and roses" is literally to me: "I will preserve myself as to stay alive whatever the bad, and also the good happening to me". What felt very unique and familiar with that line the 1st time I heard it is he puts the good and the bad on the same level. Yes, while being a certain type of person you just deal with everything, good or bad that seems overwhelming, in throwing yourself into something extreme, personal, that can be destructive or creative. And the good as the bad can be the stuff you deal with this way. 

I think the "dull" in Somewhere Now is a way of saying "falling in addiction to that point is dull." And the "full" is Forever Now is "I realize my life has become so full (of good things, in a good way) even though I've kept living on the edge all the time, and that's one thing giving me faith and strength to stay alive and preserve myself from now on." and he manages to do it, even though, as you say, past addictions remain a thought, and a fear.

I stick to my interpretation of "I ain't gonna stay in line no more" and the revolution mentions. It's not something I heard Billie say in an obvious way in interviews or anything, but I feel it that way: I do believe this final line is purely on the personal ground (hence the "no more", it's been a long time since he wasn't in line on the political ground) in regard to the way he used to function with his addictions always waiting for him in the end; while the revolution he's wanted to start in response to every new conspiracy was, in an ironical way, something he used to want as to keep busy without taking care of his addictions and something that he dealt with with the help of these same addictions.  

Now he's just found another way, sane, and he knows he'll wake up alive in the morning. And his life is no longer dull because of the addiction that he was forced to lay eyes on as he entered the process of getting rid of it, he's realized how full it is when he'd freed himself from that, and he looks at all he has built even living on the wild side that once brought him to these addictions. I don't really see this in another way. Anyways, good for me, this way of seeing it has saved my life :ga:

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On 9/9/2018 at 11:50 AM, The Bellie said:

@LaughingClock what I feel about this song does make sense for me (otherwise I wouldn't feel that way, I guess) even if my rendition of it in words is not perfect. Even if it were, I think we do, anyways, have diverse interpretations on some stuff. And that's of course okay for me. Once again I imagine my understanding of the song may be an uncommon one but it has been so for 2 years since the first time I heard it. I'm putting it in words now, but it's not something I even had to figure out. I felt it, precisely like this, from the 1st time. I just want to say, in response to your own response:

I didn't mean to say that "revolution and social breakdown" are in themselves "stopping Billie's ability to quit drugs". I think when you are an "addict-type" of person (and I am one, I don't really like or care about it, but a good friend of mine just thought today she should tell me that I feel and I do stuff in an addictive way all the time - and she was notably speaking about my passion for Billie... and I just responded, I am that kind of person, but when it only does me good, I won't turn away from it) you are just always addicted to something, it's your way of functioning, it can be good or bad but it's the way you react to everything happening, the surrounding noise that can feel empty, and also everything good and bad happening to you that can quickly feel overwhelming, in a way you have a hard time finding an appropriate way to deal with all of it. You use the addictions to fill the void as to get away from the overwhelming. To find yourself, in a way, where you can't find yourself anywhere else.

The addictions, good or bad, feel like a safe place. It isn't really a choice ("born this way") but at the same time you can choose not to be auto destructive in what you do, even if you continue to do things extremely. What's happening around Billie makes him react and he is the kind of person to react extremely, it does't mean it always has to turn in bad addictions. In the past, it could have been that, now he has discovered another safety, in preserving himself from these addictions. 

To me the "rain and roses" in Still Breathing are also a reference to every sad and joyful things things that happen to you, to which you're used to react in your own extreme way, that sort of defines you, with the addictions that are familiar to you, and it's all about wanting to start to preserve yourself, not destroy yourself anymore while reacting to it. "My head's above the rain and roses" is literally to me: "I will preserve myself as to stay alive whatever the bad, and also the good happening to me". What felt very unique and familiar with that line the 1st time I heard it is he puts the good and the bad on the same level. Yes, while being a certain type of person you just deal with everything, good or bad that seems overwhelming, in throwing yourself into something extreme, personal, that can be destructive or creative. And the good as the bad can be the stuff you deal with this way. 

I think the "dull" in Somewhere Now is a way of saying "falling in addiction to that point is dull." And the "full" is Forever Now is "I realize my life has become so full (of good things, in a good way) even though I've kept living on the edge all the time, and that's one thing giving me faith and strength to stay alive and preserve myself from now on." and he manages to do it, even though, as you say, past addictions remain a thought, and a fear.

I stick to my interpretation of "I ain't gonna stay in line no more" and the revolution mentions. It's not something I heard Billie say in an obvious way in interviews or anything, but I feel it that way: I do believe this final line is purely on the personal ground (hence the "no more", it's been a long time since he wasn't in line on the political ground) in regard to the way he used to function with his addictions always waiting for him in the end; while the revolution he's wanted to start in response to every new conspiracy was, in an ironical way, something he used to want as to keep busy without taking care of his addictions and something that he dealt with with the help of these same addictions.  

Now he's just found another way, sane, and he knows he'll wake up alive in the morning. And his life is no longer dull because of the addiction that he was forced to lay eyes on as he entered the process of getting rid of it, he's realized how full it is when he'd freed himself from that, and he looks at all he has built even living on the wild side that once brought him to these addictions. I don't really see this in another way. Anyways, good for me, this way of seeing it has saved my life :ga:

I am with you on a majority of your thoughts.  I would and WILL if I remember go pick through them one at a time.

The "how did life on the wild side ever get so dull" and "how did life on the wild side ever get so full" IS meaning (to Billie anyway) that "How did the firey, fun, explosive, exciting part of life (touring and partying) get so dull" (lack of drugs) and the conclusion is "How did it get so full" means TO BILLIE what I am saying.  That at first, when quitting drugs and alcohol, "How is this going to be fun anymore" and any former addict (such as myself who quit at the same time for different reasons and coincidentally almost exactly at the same time) was the opposite meaning "how did life on the wild side ever get so full" (off of drugs).  So again, IT IS FOR BILLIE (again, Billie writes to be interpretable but he does write directly for himself but has made his songs (like Still Breathing for example) to mean anything to anyone overcoming something but for him specifically it was drugs and alcohol.  That's what that song is about, interpreted or not, and I know you don't disagree with that I am just making the point that he writes to be interpreted when he also has direct reasons.

You can have your thoughts about the revolution part of the end of FN, but...  Also, the line "my head above the rain and roses" is one that I've always personally loved in SB.  I agree with you but once again, Billie, quite intentionally left the seemingly throw away lyrics very interpretable and with multiple meanings.  I agree again with what you said about the shit and the good being on the same level sometimes and that is what he is saying "With my head about over rain and roses, making my way back to you" which sort of counters the other happy part of the song to say that to get to the roses, you need to be above the rain. 

In other words, you have to go through shit (rain, or withdrawal, dull life, mood swings, shit that goes along with quitting) in order to get to the roses and also to get to the point where the wreckage (old life) is far away and I'm "making my way back to you", family, 80, life...His muse.


Then there is the fact that you cannot literally have roses without rain just like you can't have pain without sorrow or joy without pain.  It's not really hard philosophy to interpret here TBH. For a pop rock band it's deep but it's not Frost or Peck.  Pretty easy pickings in understanding the lyrics.

Go listen to a song like Leonard Cohen's "Famous Blue Raincoat" and you'll hear a song that you have to apply some serious interpretation.

Here is a song, listen to it once and tell me what you think it's about and you even have the lyrics.  I love your thoughts and I would respond to more of them but I don't have the time. I only meant to leave a coupe notes but have to run.  I think you might be married to some of your own thoughts but at the end of the day, the song was made to be interpreted and there is no wrong thing even if the thing that inspired it was different (or not).

 

 

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On 9/10/2018 at 11:42 PM, LaughingClock said:

I am with you on a majority of your thoughts.  I would and WILL if I remember go pick through them one at a time.

The "how did life on the wild side ever get so dull" and "how did life on the wild side ever get so full" IS meaning (to Billie anyway) that "How did the firey, fun, explosive, exciting part of life (touring and partying) get so dull" (lack of drugs) and the conclusion is "How did it get so full" means TO BILLIE what I am saying.  That at first, when quitting drugs and alcohol, "How is this going to be fun anymore" and any former addict (such as myself who quit at the same time for different reasons and coincidentally almost exactly at the same time) was the opposite meaning "how did life on the wild side ever get so full" (off of drugs).  So again, IT IS FOR BILLIE (again, Billie writes to be interpretable but he does write directly for himself but has made his songs (like Still Breathing for example) to mean anything to anyone overcoming something but for him specifically it was drugs and alcohol.  That's what that song is about, interpreted or not, and I know you don't disagree with that I am just making the point that he writes to be interpreted when he also has direct reasons.
Indeed I agree that he writes directly for himself while leaving each song free for interpretation (and I want to know what it means for himself, and that goes through my interpretation, wrong or not, me also as a former addict) and I know that he is speaking of his former addiction for drugs and alcohol. I know you've met Billie and had the luck to ask him directly, so you may be sure when you say that some meaning is to Billie, but even then I can't pick up every of your (or anyone else's) interpretations if I just don't feel them that way myself. I also think that even for Billie, one line may cover more than one sense. That's just a supposition, I may be wrong, but for example about the "dull" I think your interpretation may be right (life without drugs isn't funny anymore) while mine can also be (the fact he's got so far into addictions, to the point where he has to prevent himself from them now, as if his life had been so dull to need them at this point).
You can have your thoughts about the revolution part of the end of FN, but... and this is the kind of thoughts that appeared to me as obvious impressions, and that I won't drift from unless Billie himself tells me I am wrong ^^ Also, the line "my head above the rain and roses" is one that I've always personally loved in SB.  I agree with you but once again, Billie, quite intentionally left the seemingly throw away lyrics very interpretable and with multiple meanings.  I agree again with what you said about the shit and the good being on the same level sometimes and that is what he is saying "With my head about over rain and roses, making my way back to you" which sort of counters the other happy part of the song to say that to get to the roses, you need to be above the rain.


In other words, you have to go through shit (rain, or withdrawal, dull life, mood swings, shit that goes along with quitting) in order to get to the roses and also to get to the point where the wreckage (old life) is far away and I'm "making my way back to you", family, 80, life...His muse. I'm fine with your interpretation, and Still Breathing is my fave song, but we do differ a bit on this one: I know the context in which he wrote that song, of course, after quitting addictions. To me the "rain" isn't necessarily the shit he goes through while quitting, more like everything bad you go through in life, which it's so easy to deal with (and feel protected from) by the way of addiction, when you're into it. Of course the conclusion is the same, in both our interpretations: he gets over the shit and stays away from his former bad habits. I do'n't see that he is saying anywhere in the song he he goes over the shit in order to get to the roses, I don't read it that way (even if, probably he does like everyone, but I don't think he says that here).

I won't get started here on my thoughts about the whole song, but just a few words on the wreckage since you mention it: to me it isn't only the old life. I may just be picky here, but to me it's a way to describe the bad way he can feel (just naturally, with sadness and roller coaster of emotions), that led him to take care of it with addictions in the past, as well as the bad state he put himself into by the way of these addictions. But there's always wreckage, even without addictions, even if it's just the thought of it ow and how bad it was, anyways every time he thinks of that or feels that way, he shines a light for himself, far away from all that, as to get out of it and get to something positive. To put it another way, it's the contrary of what you do when you're deep down in an addiction and say "why should I not make even more a mess of myself (with addiction), I'm already feeling so bad". And the light is like a safe feeling, to me it rejoins my thought about Forever Now, when I was saying his feeling of safety has moved from throwing himself in the addiction to staying away from it. It's like, the answer to his feeling of "wreckage" in him has moved to something auto destructive and desperate to something positive and hopeful.

Then there is the fact that you cannot literally have roses without rain just like you can't have pain without sorrow or joy without pain.  It's not really hard philosophy to interpret here TBH. For a pop rock band it's deep but it's not Frost or Peck.  Pretty easy pickings in understanding the lyrics. Hm... I don't really agree, especially on a song like Still Breathing. I don't think Billie wants to present his lyrics as overly deep or anything, and I think the way he performs it live speaks for itself whatever the interpretations, but the fact we can have so diverse feelings about one simple line with simple words, and strong diverse feelings, does not make it so easy. The more Green Day have evolved, the more the songs have been subject to various possible interpretations. Not that I think it's a problem, on the contrary, Billie is a genius. He is able to make that happen while sticking to simple phrases and simple words. Your interpretation of the line with rain and roses is simpler than mine in a way, and maybe it's the right one, it's just not what comes in my mind while listening (so many times) to that song.

Go listen to a song like Leonard Cohen's "Famous Blue Raincoat" and you'll hear a song that you have to apply some serious interpretation.

Here is a song, listen to it once and tell me what you think it's about and you even have the lyrics.  I haven't listened to it yet, but I will I love your thoughts thanks and I would respond to more of them but I don't have the time. I only meant to leave a coupe notes but have to run.  I think you might be married to some of your own thoughts not more than anyone else, I think, when it's about defending thoughts that are very real to you... I would only let Billie pronounce the divorce with some of my interpretations of the lyrics ^^ but at the end of the day, the song was made to be interpreted and there is no wrong thing even if the thing that inspired it was different (or not). Of course

 

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If the line was "Why the hell did I work so hard to be born this way" I'd have an easier answer, but the truth is I have no idea what he means :lol: 

I'm going with Lady Gaga reference. 

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1 hour ago, ¡Jenn! said:

If the line was "Why the hell did I work so hard to be born this way" I'd have an easier answer, but the truth is I have no idea what he means :lol: 

I'm going with Lady Gaga reference. 

The simple solution is often correct

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On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:41 AM, Jane Lannister said:

The simple solution is often correct

Occam's Razor is often the solution, but can be fallacy as well. I usually find that the truth is somewhere along the spectrum in between, but likely tilted toward the simplest explanation in most instances.

Disclaimer- I have no idea what this is about at this point, but I'm glad the thread made it this far since these lyrics are my favorite off of RevRad. The fact that Billie wove lyrics into a song and a couple years later we're still dissecting them is a good sign.

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14 hours ago, TimmyChunks said:

Occam's Razor is often the solution, but can be fallacy as well. I usually find that the truth is somewhere along the spectrum in between, but likely tilted toward the simplest explanation in most instances.

Disclaimer- I have no idea what this is about at this point, but I'm glad the thread made it this far since these lyrics are my favorite off of RevRad. The fact that Billie wove lyrics into a song and a couple years later we're still dissecting them is a good sign.

My post was just a joke to Jenn who said the line is just a Lady Gaga reference :P In seriousness, I agree with you. Occam's Razor works well for science but not so much for interpretation of creative writing. For example the idea that the simplest explanation is the correct one goes directly against the entire concept of metaphors so can't very well be aplied to poetry.

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:54 AM, The Bellie said:

 

@The Bellie Bravo! Your response to my retort was a beautiful thing to read.  I am not trying to be right.  I love these conversations and posts like the one you just left are the things that keep me coming back here.

I am literally at the studio at the moment and walked outside to post back to you because while I only plan on taking under 2 minutes because I have tons of work to do I just wanted to say I agree a lot of things that you think I am "married" to but without looking at all the things you wrote, some I agree with some I don't, the only glaring omission, or fallacy (through no fault of your own) is that I am tied to my opinions.   I fancy myself a philosopher and inasmuch as I do, training yourself to NOT be married to an idea or to have multiple thoughts on many ideas just goes with the territory.

Also, while it is true, and I guess I've told the story probably 10x here that I had a lengthy discussion with Billie about a lot of the lyrics and he in person is also loosy goosy with his "this what it's about".  He doesn't really like that but my relationship isn't caught in one fly be meeting.  That said, I am not saying because of this, my opinion is right and someone else's was wrong. If I was his kid (or more likely brother since he only has a few years on me), I wouldn't even say that.  I am "married" to my ideas on certain things because they were backed up to a certain extent, especially on the part that you won't budge but that doesn't mean you're wrong.

You may very well be right and your thoughts on SB which I would love to get into a real discussion with you about because the song is so much more deep than people give it credit for and I think the FN is much deeper than it appears to me that you are giving it credit for. 

I have to run.  Sucks because there is so much more I want to say and I don't want to leave you with the feeling that I am disagreeing with you or that I don't respect an opinion you said. I am literally being called back in right now so I have to run but I will return to this post and I will either edit and add your name back again to alert you, or I'll repost but I LOVE reading your stuff.


I was a couple posts away from never coming back here but your post saved the day for me.  Great stuff.  When this place starts talking Green Day and not dumb ass shit that doesn't matter to a man over 16, it can get a little frustrating and then I act like a dick.


So great stuff, bro or sister.  Not sure which.  But TBC. I have to run and I've responded to nothing although really, we have stated our thoughts and we agree more than we disagree and where we disagree, I enjoy your interpretation and think it's well thought out and quite interesting.

 

Great, dare I say, epic post.   Love it!

Adam

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