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Hermione
30 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

I really don't agree at all. You need to teach the child that there is consequences to their actions. If they want to go for a walk they need to learn that they can't run away. If they want to go to an amusement park, they need to learn they need to stay close to mom and dad. I used to try and turn things into games with my kids. Even before they can speak, I would tell them that they can run until I tell them to freeze. Thing 1 and Thing 2 walked at 10 months and it didn't take long for them to learn. Were they perfect, hell no. Like I said, sometimes I didn't do things I wanted to do, or I left early or sometimes I would bring my mother or sister to help. But they learned early on that doing certain things was a privilege and they had to listen to be able to do them. In theory you can do the same kind of teaching with a leash, but the kids are young not stupid and they will learn also that they can take advantage because there is some security with the leash. Mom tells me not to run, but if I do she will just stop me. I just really don't think it is the right way to teach a young child. 

Everybody parents differently, and there is no wrong way to try and teach kids, but a leash is just something I could never do to my kids. 

 

I just don't think there's that much difference if they're on a leash when telling them these things, there's still plenty of things they can get up to when on one. All kids end up learning at different speeds/ages anyway, doing it without ever using a leash probably just means you end up chasing them a few more times.

Like before my nephew was old enough to understand about not running off his hand was always held when in the street or anywhere else with any danger (not hugely different from being on a leash or in a buggy), which was do-able with just one child and young fit parents, then he was gradually given more freedom. Same thing can be done with using a leash, using it less and stopping once they don't need it.

12 minutes ago, Billie Hoe said:

But what's the point of teaching your kid what to do or not to do in certain situations when you're gonna put them on the leash anyway? You show your child that you don't trust them and your child will notice that and remember it.

Strapping a kid in a buggy or holding their hand is also for their safety and not about not trusting them. Kids don't think "my mum held my hand when crossing the street when I was 4, why didn't she trust me?!". You give kids more freedom in all kinds of ways as they get older and learn more and are better able to take responsibility for themselves, as long as you recognise when it's time to give them more freedom and don't keep on limiting it when it's not necessary using reins is just one of loads of examples of ways parents keep kids protected.

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DeJennsitized
4 minutes ago, Billie Hoe said:

But what's the point of teaching your kid what to do or not to do in certain situations when you're gonna put them on the leash anyway? You show your child that you don't trust them and your child will notice that and remember it.

It's no different to holding their hand. It's a matter of safety. If you use the leash to stop them running away then they learn not to run away? It's the same idea. They might feel untrusted but at least they're alive? Plus toddlers can't be trusted, lol. They're tiny packages of mischief :tired: 

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Adorkable
10 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I just don't think there's that much difference if they're on a leash when telling them these things, there's still plenty of things they can get up to when on one. All kids end up learning at different speeds/ages anyway, doing it without ever using a leash probably just means you end up chasing them a few more times.

Like before my nephew was old enough to understand about not running off his hand was always held when in the street or anywhere else with any danger (not hugely different from being on a leash or in a buggy), which was do-able with just one child and young fit parents, then he was gradually given more freedom. Same thing can be done with using a leash, using it less and stopping once they don't need it.

Strapping a kid in a buggy or holding their hand is also for their safety and not about not trusting them. Kids don't think "my mum held my hand when crossing the street when I was 4, why didn't she trust me?!". You give kids more freedom in all kinds of ways as they get older and learn more and are better able to take responsibility for themselves, as long as you recognise when it's time to give them more freedom and don't keep on limiting it when it's not necessary using reins is just one of loads of examples of ways parents keep kids protected.

We are never going to agree, so we will have to agree to disagree.  

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Second favourite son
1 hour ago, Adorkable said:

I agree when the child is a special needs child but definitely don't when the child is not. The leash makes it too easy not to behave. 

*child with special needs

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Hermione
5 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

We are never going to agree, so we will have to agree to disagree.  

Sure! I mean I don't think reins are necessary for every child or anything. I just think every family's situation is different and for some they can be beneficial.

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Billie Hoe
27 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

It's no different to holding their hand. It's a matter of safety. If you use the leash to stop them running away then they learn not to run away? It's the same idea. They might feel untrusted but at least they're alive? Plus toddlers can't be trusted, lol. They're tiny packages of mischief :tired: 

I disagree, because holding somebody's hand and putting them on a leash have two very different connotations. Holding somebody's hand is associated with love, warmth, safety and care, while being put on a leash on somebody is dehumanizing, restricting and controlling. If your child is at an age where they don't need to be pushed around in a buggy anymore and are able to walk stretches by themselves, they are also able to understand most of what's happening around them and are able to feel embarrassment and sadness and anger. If my mom had me on a leash as a child during walks, I know I would be embarrassed and angry that my mom would feel the need to treat me like a dog. It would've made me act out more. It can be playful sometimes too, like in a game of pretend where the child asks to be put on a leash because they WANT to be a dog, but that's not the case here. Also disagree that you can't trust toddlers, because you can if you raise them right. They're intelligent beings who will do the best they can if they're shown trust because it also boosts their own self esteem. They love being praised for doing something right. Yes, you shouldn't let them run away onto the street and holding their hand when crossing is okay, even when they think it's annoying. If you put them on a leash though, you do it because it's convenient for yourself. Again, holding a hand and leashing are two very different things.

I wouldn't put my child in a buggy unless they're unable to walk or tired out from walking or have a disability preventing them from walking either, because I think it's restricting and children can and should run without running away.

(Btw I added something to my previous post but I think you might didnt see it)

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AlissaGoesRAWR
10 hours ago, DeJennsitized said:

The comparison to a dog I don't get either. You're not humiliating your dog when you put it on a leash, it's for their safety. Why is it suddenly degrading for a child?  

Because a child is a person, not an animal. Even if it's a leash with a fuzzy animal on it to make it look "cute," I still can't help but feel like it's de-humanizing the child.

Isn't that why they put the fuzzy stuff on it in the first place? To make it look less awful?

I mean, I treat my cats as close to humans as I can, but in the end I know they're not people, can't understand instructions or my language and have animal instincts rather than an inclination to know right from wrong. I wouldn't think twice about putting my cats on a leash if I took them outside because they're animals and they will run away no matter how much I try to teach them. That's why people view it differently.

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DeJennsitized
19 minutes ago, Billie Hoe said:

I disagree, because holding somebody's hand and putting them on a leash have two very different connotations. Holding somebody's hand is associated with love, warmth, safety and care, while being put on a leash on somebody is dehumanizing, restricting and controlling. If your child is at an age where they don't need to be pushed around in a buggy anymore and are able to walk stretches by themselves, they are also able to understand most of what's happening around them and are able to feel embarrassment and sadness and anger. If my mom had me on a leash as a child during walks, I know I would be embarrassed and angry that my mom would feel the need to treat me like a dog. It would've made me act out more. It can be playful sometimes too, like in a game of pretend where the child asks to be put on a leash because they WANT to be a dog, but that's not the case here. Also disagree that you can't trust toddlers, because you can if you raise them right. They're intelligent beings who will do the best they can if they're shown trust because it also boosts their own self esteem. They love being praised for doing something right. Yes, you shouldn't let them run away onto the street and holding their hand when crossing is okay, even when they think it's annoying. If you put them on a leash though, you do it because it's convenient for yourself. Again, holding a hand and leashing are two very different things.

I wouldn't put my child in a buggy unless they're unable to walk or tired out from walking or have a disability preventing them from walking either, because I think it's restricting and children can and should run without running away.

(Btw I added something to my previous post but I think you might didnt see it)

I don't think they're that different and I guess that's where we disagree. I really don't think a 2-3 year old would pick up on those connotations. Holding their hand restricts them even more than a leash - the idea of them is that it gives the child a certain amount of freedom without letting them run away completely. Obviously you don't see it that way though. And of course it's convenient - parenting is already a hard job, if there's a thing that helps control the child then why not use it? 

I did see it, and I'm not saying the leash is a necessary part of a childhood - just that I can totally see the benefits of using one.

4 minutes ago, AlissaGoesRAWR said:

Because a child is a person, not an animal. Even if it's a leash with a fuzzy animal on it to make it look "cute," I still can't help but feel like it's de-humanizing the child.

Isn't that why they put the fuzzy stuff on it in the first place? To make it look less awful?

I mean, I treat my cats as close to humans as I can, but in the end I know they're not people, can't understand instructions or my language and have animal instincts rather than an inclination to know right from wrong. I wouldn't think twice about putting my cats on a leash if I took them outside because they're animals and they will run away no matter how much I try to teach them. That's why people view it differently.

A child up to a certain age is just as likely to run away as a pet, before they're taught not to. I'm not saying children aren't intelligent, but I'm seeing use of the leash as a safety barrier, like those moving highchair things babies walk about in. It's not about reining the child in, but rather letting them be as free as possible without the worry of losing them. 

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Adorkable
3 minutes ago, DeJennsitized said:

I don't think they're that different and I guess that's where we disagree. I really don't think a 2-3 year old would pick up on those connotations. Holding their hand restricts them even more than a leash - the idea of them is that it gives the child a certain amount of freedom without letting them run away completely. Obviously you don't see it that way though. And of course it's convenient - parenting is already a hard job, if there's a thing that helps control the child then why not use it? 

I did see it, and I'm not saying the leash is a necessary part of a childhood - just that I can totally see the benefits of using one.

A child up to a certain age is just as likely to run away as a pet, before they're taught not to. I'm not saying children aren't intelligent, but I'm seeing use of the leash as a safety barrier, like those moving highchair things babies walk about in. It's not about reining the child in, but rather letting them be as free as possible without the worry of losing them. 

An infant picks up on those connotations. Most kids love holding hands and you don't hold hands all the time, like you would have the leash on. You hold their hands when you need too. My kids would just hold their hands up when we got to a street because they were taught they cannot cross a street without holding hands. If there was more than one adult it was always fun for them to pick who's hands they want to hold.

But parenting isn't controlling the child, it's teaching the child.

Any child of any age will run away if they are not taught. My twins starting walking at 10 months and they understood not to run away by 10 1/2 months. The point is to teach them, then restricting them by using a leash is unnecessary.   

FYI, I'm not sure what you mean by moving highchair things but I am assuming that you mean a baby walker. They are highly dangerous and pediatricians recommend never to use them. 

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Baby-Walkers-A-Dangerous-Choice.aspx 

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DeJennsitized
2 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

An infant picks up on those connotations. Most kids love holding hands and you don't hold hands all the time, like you would have the leash on. You hold their hands when you need too. My kids would just hold their hands up when we got to a street because they were taught they cannot cross a street without holding hands. If there was more than one adult it was always fun for them to pick who's hands they want to hold.

But parenting isn't controlling the child, it's teaching the child.

Any child of any age will run away if they are not taught. My twins starting walking at 10 months and they understood not to run away by 10 1/2 months. The point is to teach them, then restricting them by using a leash is unnecessary.   

FYI, I'm not sure what you mean by moving highchair things but I am assuming that you mean a baby walker. They are highly dangerous and pediatricians recommend never to use them. 

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Baby-Walkers-A-Dangerous-Choice.aspx 

Some kids don't like being touched at all though. As I said, it won't work for every child but I can see how it can be a godsend for certain children. Teaching can still be carried out, but this way things going wrong is minimised. A child only has to disobey once for disaster to occur, so why not protect that from happening? Children can be taught without the threat of danger or punishment, surely. 

Maybe a baby walker wasn't the best example then :lol: but things like safety locks and socket covers, they are seen as protection measures, not an indication of how much you trust your child. 

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Rumpelstiltskin2000

As a single parent without a car there were two or three times I felt I had no choice but to use reins. It's not always possible to choose whether or not your child should be in a certain situation. For example, I was alone taking my daughter to see her family in Portugal. We were meant to get assistance at the airport but it never materialised. I didn't have a buggy because I couldn't carry it or get it on the coach in addition to our luggage (we were going for a month). Heathrow Airport is huge and extremely busy. There's a long way for a small child to walk to the gates. What was the alternative - not taking her to see her family? That's an extreme sacrifice to make for the sake of not using reins once. It didn't dehumanise my child or affect her trust in me. She doesn't even remember it.

Also, when kids are learning to walk they sometimes want to walk a bit and then get back in the buggy, but you still have to push the buggy so in that case reins are useful. Or if your hands are taken up with groceries, reins are a much better choice than letting your kid run off into the road.

Obviously, it's bad if parents rely on reins rather than teaching kids. But in certain instances they're helpful. Using them in those cases doesn't show a lack of trust. It shows you'd rather give your kid some freedom while not wanting anything to happen to them.

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Hermione

You guys are calling it a "leash" and looking at that from an adult's point of view with the connotations of what a "leash" means. It isn't actually a dog leash to pull a child around with :lol:, it's a harness designed to prevent a child running away into danger. You can still walk with them exactly the same, just means if they unexpectedly try and run in the road or whatever they fail. Toddlers don't have that negative association of a dog leash attached to wearing reins, of it being "humiliating" etc, to a young child who's used to them sometimes being a part of going out it's just another everyday safety restraint like straps in a buggy, bars on a play pen or having to hold hands.

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Adorkable

I'm just curious, are these kid leashes common in Europe? Because they are very uncommon in the US. You rarely see them. 

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The Insider

Thing 1 never left my side but Thing 2 marches to the beat of his own drum.  I never used a leash although after one morning in Target when he literally disappeared I considered it.  I was panic stricken - literally running through Target screaming lock the doors - my boy is wearing "this" - don't let anyone leave the store with him.  We found him under a rack playing with a toy.  I honestly don't think a leash would have changed his actions in the long run but would have made that shopping day a little less stressful.

14 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

I'm just curious, are these kid leashes common in Europe? Because they are very uncommon in the US. You rarely see them. 

I see the ones attached to cute little back packs here a bit.

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Rumpelstiltskin2000
12 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

I'm just curious, are these kid leashes common in Europe? Because they are very uncommon in the US. You rarely see them. 

In the UK we call them reins or safety harnesses. I wouldn't say they're common these days but they were when I was a kid. I know that my American friend has used them too in extreme circumstances.

Do you think it has something to do with most people driving in the US and things being so much further apart?

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The Insider
30 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

I actually saw someone getting off the bus with one of these the other day - a dog buggy!

 

When Molly gets older I will get her one of these - Im sure she would love it now if I used one for her walk - she is a lazy bitch.

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Beerjeezus
1 hour ago, Hermione said:

You guys are calling it a "leash" and looking at that from an adult's point of view with the connotations of what a "leash" means. It isn't actually a dog leash to pull a child around with :lol:, it's a harness designed to prevent a child running away into danger. You can still walk with them exactly the same, just means if they unexpectedly try and run in the road or whatever they fail. Toddlers don't have that negative association of a dog leash attached to wearing reins, of it being "humiliating" etc, to a young child who's used to them sometimes being a part of going out it's just another everyday safety restraint like straps in a buggy, bars on a play pen or having to hold hands.

Isn't this the same as a leash, though? I mean, the purpose and the definition is pretty much the same. :P

27 minutes ago, Adorkable said:

I'm just curious, are these kid leashes common in Europe? Because they are very uncommon in the US. You rarely see them. 

I don't think so? I've seen it maybe once or twice and one time was someone who had approx. 10 kids holding to a rope, so that was a bit different.

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AlissaGoesRAWR
4 hours ago, Adorkable said:

I'm just curious, are these kid leashes common in Europe? Because they are very uncommon in the US. You rarely see them. 

There’s an amusement park in my hometown and that’s mostly where I saw them. It wasn’t frequent enough for it to seem common, though. It was always weird to see.

The place did attract a lot of international guests so maybe it would be more common for people from other places to bring them? I didn’t think about the possible cultural differences.

 

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Hermione
6 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

Isn't this the same as a leash, though? I mean, the purpose and the definition is pretty much the same. :P

I don't think so? I've seen it maybe once or twice and one time was someone who had approx. 10 kids holding to a rope, so that was a bit different.

It's a similar purpose but not really as with a dog leash you're leading them around by it. And the connotations of it being humiliating, meant for a dog only or punishment-like is something adults associate with "leashes" being used on people, it really doesn't apply to safety reins for kids especially from a toddler's pov.

 

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Adorkable
10 hours ago, Rumpelstiltskin2000 said:

 

Do you think it has something to do with most people driving in the US and things being so much further apart?

It could be. But as someone said, I think there are just cultural differences on how acceptable these are.  

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Hermione

I never even see them here haha. Suffice to say they're probably mostly used on trips to particularly crowded/potentially dangerous/unfamiliar places, other than in more rare situations where the child has special needs, the parent is less mobile, there's a lot of kids or a kid is in a bad running off phase etc. I just think if you see someone using one they probably have a good reason for it, can't assume what the reason is or that they use it all the time.

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Billie Hoe

That reminds me of this Modern Family episode where they go to Disneyland and the dad gets a leash for their kid and the grandfather is super scandalized and solves the problem by giving the little girl the princess shoes she really wanted but can't run in :lol:

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duckez

I confess that sometimes I say jokes about tragic things even though I don't mean it and it just slips out. And then everyone thinks I'm a terrible person which to be honest I probably am

Edited by duckez
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