Books about Green Day

[Eva]

6 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

He certainly is a good writer but his commentary is very questionable and the part where he goes on and on about Japanese fans is downright misogynistic and racist. 

Woah, shit, really? What did he say? I don't read very much in general these days and barely keep up to date with Green Day at all so I haven't heard about this.

3 hours ago, pacejunkie punk said:

I flat out disagreed with his opinion about Billie kissing fans onstage. The idea that keeping a distance makes you more desirable or somehow unattainable I don’t get at all. Even as affectionate as he is, he’s still unattainable of course but it just makes you feel closer and loved and that makes him more desirable not less.  I’m glad he never took Aaron’s advice on this one. 

I disagree with the idea that not kissing fans onstage would make him more desirable but I do have to say that Billie kissing fans while on stage makes me incredibly uncomfortable sometimes and I do think he needs to be more careful about it.

[pacejunkie punk]

2 hours ago, Eva said:

Woah, shit, really? What did he say? I don't read very much in general these days and barely keep up to date with Green Day at all so I haven't heard about this.

I disagree with the idea that not kissing fans onstage would make him more desirable but I do have to say that Billie kissing fans while on stage makes me incredibly uncomfortable sometimes and I do think he needs to be more careful about it.

It made Aaron super uncomfortable.

The Japanese comments were basically saying that these female fans’ boyfriends didn’t stand a chance compared to someone like Billie who is not only a rich rock star but Anglo (as though that was also a preferred feature) and that they should be super jealous.

[Hermione]

I think sometimes the way he writes is deliberately over the top and somewhat tongue in cheek. Like he'll describe a scenario in an exaggeratedly dramatic way to paint a picture and add some humour, in a way where he lets you know not to take it completely seriously. I disagreed with his take on Billie kissing fans as well but I think there was a bit of that going on in his description of the scene. Plus he does openly admit he has a bit of a problem with being judgemental . His thing with the kissing was that he thinks there needs to be a line between the fans and performer and that the kissing crosses it, he was pretty over dramatic about one girl going and giving Billie a kiss though lol.

Did he really mention race in that? I can't remember. I thought it was more just like he was a cool American rockstar, which is more about America being considered universally cool (in certain contexts) than a race thing imo.

There are other parts where he describes the way fans are in different countries. But again it really just seemed like his observations of the vibe of the different crowds/fans and how they acted.

[pacejunkie punk]

I’d have to go back and check but I thought he said white or Anglo. 

[Beerjeezus]

What Aaron said was that the Japanese girls find him so desirable because he's talented, smart, sensitive and white and that their boyfriend's must be jealous because they know they'll never be better than the perfect white guy. Very classy 

[LiveGreenDay]

If you're twisting my arm, I have to recommend "Rebels with a Cause" and "Green Day Treasures", both by Gillian Gaar. And it has nothing to do with my having helped with both, or the memorabilia featured in the latter being mine.

(Buy them so we can make another, thanks)

[pacejunkie punk]

3 minutes ago, LiveGreenDay said:

If you're twisting my arm, I have to recommend "Rebels with a Cause" and "Green Day Treasures", both by Gillian Gaar. And it has nothing to do with my having helped with both, or the memorabilia featured in the latter being mine.

(Buy them so we can make another, thanks)

I have Green Day Treasures, it’s a lot of fun 👍

[The Grohl]

1 hour ago, LiveGreenDay said:

If you're twisting my arm, I have to recommend "Rebels with a Cause" and "Green Day Treasures", both by Gillian Gaar. And it has nothing to do with my having helped with both, or the memorabilia featured in the latter being mine.

(Buy them so we can make another, thanks)

Rebels without a cause! That's the name of the book I couldn't remember! I have that one, but I have so many damn books I haven't read it yet.

[Hermione]

20 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

What Aaron said was that the Japanese girls find him so desirable because he's talented, smart, sensitive and white and that their boyfriend's must be jealous because they know they'll never be better than the perfect white guy. Very classy 

I mean he is white though. And white is (unfortunately) seen/portrayed as superior including in Asia. I'm looking at it now and I think it's written more as a reflection on Billie, like he's the unbeatably cool rich rockstar from America (white just being another thing on the list) swanning into Asia and letting girls kiss him on stage instead of keeping a boundary between himself and the fans. I totally disagree with his whole take on it and the way he tries to paint it as something sleazy and a problem when it's really just a silly friendly kiss. And the idea of guys being jealous is particularly dumb, seems like he's creating an issue where there isn't one. But I didn't take it as an insult to the fans/people of the country. He wasn't talking about Japanese girls specifically btw, he was talking about on the whole tour.

[Beerjeezus]

17 minutes ago, Hermione said:

I mean he is white though. And white is (unfortunately) seen/portrayed as superior including in Asia. I'm looking at it now and I think it's written more as a reflection on Billie, like he's the unbeatably cool rich rockstar from America (white just being another thing on the list) swanning into Asia and letting girls kiss him on stage instead of keeping a boundary between himself and the fans. I totally disagree with his whole take on it and the way he tries to paint it as something sleazy and a problem when it's really just a silly friendly kiss. And the idea of guys being jealous is particularly dumb, seems like he's creating an issue where there isn't one. But I didn't take it as an insult to the fans/people of the country. He wasn't talking about Japanese girls specifically btw, he was talking about on the whole tour.

I agree with most you've said but I do have a problem with his take on how race is a part of it. It's a classic case of a white dude feeling suprior and that's simply just disgusting.

[IcyMoffatt]

18 hours ago, LiveGreenDay said:

If you're twisting my arm, I have to recommend "Rebels with a Cause" and "Green Day Treasures", both by Gillian Gaar. And it has nothing to do with my having helped with both, or the memorabilia featured in the latter being mine.

(Buy them so we can make another, thanks)

Tip for you both if you ever make another book: correct your mistakes before publishing.

I don't want to be insulting, but repeating the same mistakes over and over again when they are so obvious doesn't make a good book. I'm still not over the fact that the author called the character played by Billie in AI St.Nick. That's Santa Claus' name!

[LiveGreenDay]

Of course not. Why would I take such a condescending remark to be insulting?

We both pointed out that mistake when we received the proofs, but the publisher said it was too late to correct. Wasn't something we did.

[Hermione]

9 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

I agree with most you've said but I do have a problem with his take on how race is a part of it. It's a classic case of a white dude feeling suprior and that's simply just disgusting.

I just don't think a comment on race is necessarily racist. I don't think it's about him actually feeling superior being white, more a comment on the fact that whiteness is seen as superior. Being white is portrayed as being more attractive in the media in many Asian countries. Also he's Jewish so like, I think he's quite comfortable discussing race openly and commenting on a rich white American rockstar's behaviour visiting a foreign country. He's observing how they get along as visitors in different countries so race will come into it.

[The Grohl]

The errors in Green Day Treasures really took me out of the book. 

[IcyMoffatt]

I received this beauty today: 

 

[Beerjeezus]

15 hours ago, Hermione said:

I just don't think a comment on race is necessarily racist. I don't think it's about him actually feeling superior being white, more a comment on the fact that whiteness is seen as superior. Being white is portrayed as being more attractive in the media in many Asian countries. Also he's Jewish so like, I think he's quite comfortable discussing race openly and commenting on a rich white American rockstar's behaviour visiting a foreign country. He's observing how they get along as visitors in different countries so race will come into it.

Fair point, I just can't help feeling that he's not simply making a neutral comment but he's viewing things from that perspective. He's not criticizing Billie for taking advantage of his position, he's criticizing him for letting the girls touch him/kiss him/whatever - the fact that he's the superior white alpha male isn't a question for Aaron. I just don't like his take on this. 

[Hermione]

9 hours ago, Jane Lannister said:

Fair point, I just can't help feeling that he's not simply making a neutral comment but he's viewing things from that perspective. He's not criticizing Billie for taking advantage of his position, he's criticizing him for letting the girls touch him/kiss him/whatever - the fact that he's the superior white alpha male isn't a question for Aaron. I just don't like his take on this. 

I guess I just view that part differently. But as a whole I don't like his take on it either, it's like he had to invent all these extra problems of different races/cultures and jealous boyfriends to make a fuss about a non issue because he found Billie kissing fans icky. Just seems like he didn't get the point of it, especially the way he mentioned it always being a girl being kissed and a boy playing guitar as if it was a reinforcing sexist stereotypes thing. Perhaps if he'd seen other bits of tours that would show it certainly isn't only girls being kissed or only boys playing guitar and how much of a friendly rather than sleazy thing it is he would've seen it differently. 

[IcyMoffatt]

I finished reading Green Day Faq over almost 2 weeks ago. It was a good read. I learned a lot and it was probably one of the best books about the band. It isn't perfect, but the author did a good job overall. 

However, maybe my point of view might sounds skewed since I do know / I was teached how to do a historical research, I have the feeling during all the reading that the author would have done a better job if he did have access to more personal archives. What I mean is that when you want to write about the story of whatever subject, you need to dig the more «first hand» archives you can find (personal stuff like letters, diary, interview with the subject, ...) Then, you go with the «second hand» archives to fill the blanks, but they shouldn't overwhelm the «first hand» ones. In this book's case, the author did use a lot of interviews, a few writings from people who knew GD personally and some videos of the band found on Youtube, but the research is mostly based on what fans sent to him. He didn't have access to the band nor their personal archives. I'm sure Bordowitz would have liked to have this chance because he really did his best to tell the world the story of GD with what he had under his hands. So, sometimes, it kind of felt that the author wanted to tell more, but he wasn't able due to the lack of informations.