Is Green Day receiving more criticism now for their views on Trump than when they released American Idiot?

[DeJennsitized]

32 minutes ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

I'm actually reading this thread just so I can decide who I officially hate on here...

It is a useful tool for deciding who to put on Ignore  

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

8 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

It is a useful tool for deciding who to put on Ignore  

Definitely 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

6 hours ago, Cunt said:

You don't get out of the house much do you? I can count several times that protests have become riots of the past few months or even years. Never was it people protesting a "progressive" cause it was always against "conservative" causes. Of course we have to turn to the fact that killing babies is ok. Who cares right? It's just about what's more convenient for them. FUN FACT! Did you know that Around hair of the women that have already had an abortion have another? So it just has to do with the fact that people are idiots and hell I don't know.....maybe use a condom? Take a fucking day after pill for god sakes.  What you're doing right now is whining. No it's not a right it's actually murder. I'm afraid the "clump of cells" feels its spinal cord being snapped and in fact twitches when it happens. 

Don't you fucking dare tell me how I should feel about an issue. And don't sit there and judge women when you wouldn't last one day in some of their lives. You want to talk about statistics? 1 out of 5 women is sexually assaulted in college alone. It's higher in general. 63% of sexual assaults go unreported. So now you're telling us we should not only quit whining for respect, but also that preventing pregnancy is just a simple choice of a condom when probably about 1 out of 3 times in this country the sex itself wasn't even voluntary. Just like Trump, who sits in his golden rooms and preaches to people when he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And talks about how fun it is to assault women since he's famous. And you want to talk about whining, how about his non-stop diarrhea of the mouth about how unfair everyone is to him? He makes a lot of people sick. It's not just his policies, it's that he's a despicable human  being. Thank you for proving  Billie's point with your idiotic post. 

[Cunt]

1 hour ago, neverdone2000 said:

Don't you fucking dare tell me how I should feel about an issue. And don't sit there and judge women when you wouldn't last one day in some of their lives. You want to talk about statistics? 1 out of 5 women is sexually assaulted in college alone. It's higher in general. 63% of sexual assaults go unreported. So now you're telling us we should not only quit whining for respect, but also that preventing pregnancy is just a simple choice of a condom when probably about 1 out of 3 times in this country the sex itself wasn't even voluntary. Just like Trump, who sits in his golden rooms and preaches to people when he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And talks about how fun it is to assault women since he's famous. And you want to talk about whining, how about his non-stop diarrhea of the mouth about how unfair everyone is to him? He makes a lot of people sick. It's not just his policies, it's that he's a despicable human  being. Thank you for proving  Billie's point with your idiotic post. 

What the hell did I ever say about sexual assault? When did I ever bring that up? That has nothing to do with anything I said.

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

4 minutes ago, Cunt said:

What the hell did I ever say about sexual assault? When did I ever bring that up? That has nothing to do with anything I said.

Our current president is on tape describing himself in the act. Also he has called women pigs and has said extremely degrading things repeatedly about them when egged on by Howard Stern. And likes to criticize women's weight and appearance when he himself is an ugly shit. And then you and people like you say that women are "whining" when they show up in mass to send him a message? Absolutely unbelievable how blind people are.

[Cunt]

4 hours ago, neverdone2000 said:

Our current president is on tape describing himself in the act. Also he has called women pigs and has said extremely degrading things repeatedly about them when egged on by Howard Stern. And likes to criticize women's weight and appearance when he himself is an ugly shit. And then you and people like you say that women are "whining" when they show up in mass to send him a message? Absolutely unbelievable how blind people are.

Again. This has nothing to do with anything that I've said. For the record I am quite alright with someone having an abortion if they have a sexual assault case. 

[DeJennsitized]

4 hours ago, Cunt said:

Again. This has nothing worse I do with anything that I've said. For the record I am quite alright with someone having an abortion if they have a sexual assault case. 

I thought the clump of cells felt the pain when they're aborted? So it's alright for that to happen when it's a result of sexual assault? You can't pick and choose what women are allowed abortions and what women can't if your reason for being anti abortion is to protect the foetus or whatever. 

This is why people advocate for pro-choice. Let the fucking woman decide what she wants to do with the clump of cells attached to her own body. 

[Cunt]

7 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

I thought the clump of cells felt the pain when they're aborted? So it's alright for that to happen when it's a result of sexual assault? You can't pick and choose what women are allowed abortions and what women can't if your reason for being anti abortion is to protect the foetus or whatever. 

This is why people advocate for pro-choice. Let the fucking woman decide what she wants to do with the clump of cells attached to her own body. 

I get and respect what your saying, but it makes sense. You don't want to carry around your rapists babies, but if someone was just an idiot and got pregnant then there really isn't any reason to have an abortion other than the fact it's an inconvenience. 

[DeJennsitized]

11 minutes ago, Cunt said:

I get and respect what your saying, but it makes sense. You don't want to carry around your rapists babies, but if someone was just an idiot and got pregnant then there really isn't any reason to have an abortion other than the fact it's an inconvenience. 

Babies aren't just an inconvenience, they're life changing and require dedicated care and upbringing, and also super expensive. Some women's lives aren't suited for a child. Abortion isn't taken lightly by anyone so not sure where that notion came from. And banning abortion only bans safe abortion - women will still have them but it will be dangerous to do so. 

Edit: I'm aware this isn't exactly on topic so I'll stop now!

[tdlyon]

After all of the horrible news of today, I can safely say fuck Trump and fuck anyone that supports or defends him. He needs as many people speaking out against him as possible before he destroys 50 years of progress that the US has made, and Green Day leading the charge among musicians is making me very happy

 

[I don't care]

14 hours ago, Cunt said:

You don't get out of the house much do you? I can count several times that protests have become riots of the past few months or even years. Never was it people protesting a "progressive" cause it was always against "conservative" causes. Of course we have to turn to the fact that killing babies is ok. Who cares right? It's just about what's more convenient for them. FUN FACT! Did you know that Around hair of the women that have already had an abortion have another? So it just has to do with the fact that people are idiots and hell I don't know.....maybe use a condom? Take a fucking day after pill for god sakes.  What you're doing right now is whining. No it's not a right it's actually murder. I'm afraid the "clump of cells" feels its spinal cord being snapped and in fact twitches when it happens. 

I see your point, but the problem here is that so called "safe" sex isn't safe. There's always a risk that the condom breaks and pills are no guarantee, either. The only 100% sure way to not get pregnant is to, well, not have sex. The problem in this debate is that everyone's definition of a "baby" seems to differ, so perhaps one should clarify that first. I don't consider a foetus a "baby", simply because it's still somehow part of its mother's body, a bundle of cells in its mother's body. You say that "the "clump of cells" feels its spinal cord being snapped and in fact twitches when it happens.", can you cite a source? I would love to see where you found it (not sarcastically).

Also, guys, mutual respect is vital for a pleasant debate climate. Everyone is allowed an opinion, whether you like their stance or not. The least one can do is try to keep it civil.

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

2 hours ago, I don't care said:

 

Also, guys, mutual respect is vital for a pleasant debate climate. Everyone is allowed an opinion, whether you like their stance or not. The least one can do is try to keep it civil.

Except of course that debating abortion rights (fucking ridiculous in 2017) isn't the point of this topic; it's supposed to be about Green Day and whether or not they're receiving more criticism for their views on Trump. On that I'd just like to say that they probably aren't. When you look on Facebook or Billie posts on IG about Trump we see some butthurt idiots who seemingly had no idea Billie wasn't a huge fan of Republicans, racists, people who don't support LGBT rights and sexists so they write stupid shit about his new political views or how he used to be great but now he's gone all political etc. Clearly they never saw ickle Billie Joe singing Road To Acceptance live and giving his little speech about racism and homophobia. Clearly they never watched interviews with the guy, ever. Regardless, there may seem to be a massive amount of people bitching directly at Billie and the guys via social media etc and that's obviously only possible now because it wasn't possible to do so when American Idiot came out. If they had had social media then it would have been swamped with pro Bush support. Consider this though, literally millions around the world protested Trump on his first day in office so hating his guts is not the unpopular choice. When Green Day did the AMA chant they weren't called out for being anti-American by anyone. When they played American Idiot at Milton Keynes they were called anti-American by Brandon Flowers and that got significant press. Nobody would consider you anti-American if you set fire to a life sized mannequin of Trump but you couldn't say I'm not 100% sold on every idea that Bush has had. That's the big difference. Oh and American Idiot was so massive and actually directly confronted the political situation whereas Billie has deliberately avoided it this time on the record so gets less press attention. Just idiot fans who weren't obviously that into them anyway or they'd have known their political leanings and not be so offended (while cheering on the never offensive Trump).

[I don't care]

2 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

Except of course that debating abortion rights (fucking ridiculous in 2017) isn't the point of this topic

The part about mutual respect applies to any kind of disagreement or debate, whether it's about abortion or Green Day.

2 hours ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

it's supposed to be about Green Day and whether or not they're receiving more criticism for their views on Trump.

I am aware that I contributed to an off-topic discussion, but sometimes you just have to respond to something. I'm sure you understand the feeling. It's not as if this is the first time people have gone off-topic on GDC, but of course we should try to minimize the occasions. Have a nice day! 

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

5 minutes ago, I don't care said:

The part about mutual respect applies to any kind of disagreement or debate, whether it's about abortion or Green Day.

I am aware that I contributed to an off-topic discussion, but sometimes you just have to respond to something. I'm sure you understand the feeling. It's not as if this is the first time people have gone off-topic on GDC, but of course we should try to minimize the occasions. Have a nice day! 

I know I quoted you and I'm actually sorry for having to do that, didn't want to quote the people arguing above you actually about abortion which could go on endlessly and has already gotten nasty. Great day to you too 

[DeJennsitized]

I don't think American Idiot was any more overt than Revolution Radio. It's not really the albums themselves, it's the way the band market them and what they say during interviews. A lot of criticism seems to come from people thinking GD are trying to emulate AI's success by speaking out about politics; that didn't happen the first time round because AI seemed to be a new direction for them. 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

I apologize for going off-topic and a little aggressive in my response, but I'm sick & tired of Trump supporters being dismissive and condescinding. Having said that, I will try to be good. 😜

[Hero_Of_The_Hour]

32 minutes ago, Jenn. said:

I don't think American Idiot was any more overt than Revolution Radio. It's not really the albums themselves, it's the way the band market them and what they say during interviews. A lot of criticism seems to come from people thinking GD are trying to emulate AI's success by speaking out about politics; that didn't happen the first time round because AI seemed to be a new direction for them. 

 

American Idiot definitely was more overt though. Songs like American Idiot which while not exclusively about Bush certainly referenced him and Holiday which includes the lyrics 

Zieg Heil to the president Gasman
Bombs away is your punishment
Pulverize the Eiffel towers
Who criticize your government
Bang bang goes the broken glass and
Kill all the fags that don't agree
Trials by fire, setting fire
Is not a way that's meant for me
Just cause (hey, hey, hey), just cause, because we're outlaws yeah!
 

Hell even the title is taking the piss out of the fact that Bush was on that month long "working holiday" before 9/11. In contrast Billie made it clear from the first interviews about Revrad that he wouldn't "on his worst day" write a song about Trump. He also seemed to flip flop depending on who was interviewing him like on that CBS interview with Brigit Quinn where he seemed very unenthusiastic about fans chanting against Trump at his shows. Now they make a lyrics video all about Trump. It actually does come off as a little opportunistic to be honest. I was really hoping that Revrad would have been more political/anti Trump but he couldn't have avoided it more if he tried and even swore off doing another AI style album in the future (Guitar World) unfortunately. 

[LPbilliejr]

20 hours ago, neverdone2000 said:

Don't you fucking dare tell me how I should feel about an issue. And don't sit there and judge women when you wouldn't last one day in some of their lives. You want to talk about statistics? 1 out of 5 women is sexually assaulted in college alone. It's higher in general. 63% of sexual assaults go unreported. So now you're telling us we should not only quit whining for respect, but also that preventing pregnancy is just a simple choice of a condom when probably about 1 out of 3 times in this country the sex itself wasn't even voluntary. Just like Trump, who sits in his golden rooms and preaches to people when he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And talks about how fun it is to assault women since he's famous. And you want to talk about whining, how about his non-stop diarrhea of the mouth about how unfair everyone is to him? He makes a lot of people sick. It's not just his policies, it's that he's a despicable human  being. Thank you for proving  Billie's point with your idiotic post. 

Wow and you started your rant with an outright incorrect statistic. You are a part of the reason real sexual assault cases get placed on the back-burner for the "lets call everything rape crowd." Real rape is violent, heinous, and inhumane, not because you had sex when you were drunk and regretted it afterwards. That statistic is trash and of course you couldn't give a rats ass to do some real investigating on something you hold to be so damn true

On 1/24/2017 at 11:22 AM, stories and songs said:

@LPbilliejr No one should need to write an essay about why they feel a certain way about Trump in a thread about Green Day's political views and how it impacts their audience. I could give you plenty of reasons why I feel the same way @Hermione does, but I don't think this is the place for that. 

Anyway, while they may be receiving more criticism for their stance on Trump, what I appreciate most about them is that they don't give a flying fuck if it loses them fans or not. If their fans have a problem with them promoting the no sexism/no racism/no homophobia ideals and trying to call out someone who encourages some of the ugliest parts of humanity, good for them. They're standing up for what they think is right, as any Bay Area punk band would.

It had nothing to do with feelings, if a said person does not fit the definition of what you are labeling he/she, then you are lying.

[DeJennsitized]

1 hour ago, Hero_Of_The_Hour said:

American Idiot definitely was more overt though.

In contrast Billie made it clear from the first interviews about Revrad that he wouldn't "on his worst day" write a song about Trump. He also seemed to flip flop depending on who was interviewing him like on that CBS interview with Brigit Quinn where he seemed very unenthusiastic about fans chanting against Trump at his shows. Now they make a lyrics video all about Trump. It actually does come off as a little opportunistic to be honest. I was really hoping that Revrad would have been more political/anti Trump but he couldn't have avoided it more if he tried and even swore off doing another AI style album in the future (Guitar World) unfortunately. 

You're right about Holiday being overt - I just meant the album as a whole. It's referencing Bush as a means of creating a background for the characters but I feel like it's only more overt because we know it was written during Bush's first term and Billie Joe made direct references during gigs and interviews. And obviously American Idiot as the title of the album was probably meant to make you think of Bush.

The more socially conscious songs on Revolution Radio might not be about Trump specifically but i think they did point to the Far Right movement that resulted in Trump's election. If that makes sense. So it's not a huge stretch for them to now make references to Trump in the lyric video for example. No one can deny it's good (if you can call it that) timing, but they also didn't know he'd get elected. And Billie Joe can tell people he doesn't want to dignify Trump with a song or whatever, but he can also get angry and want to call him out onstage like he has done. i guess he does maybe flip flop on his stance, but most do - it's just a human thing.

I'm sure this has some relevance to the topic  Basically i think things outside the album content itself contribute to how much criticism the band get - and because things like Billie Joe yelling 'Fuck Trump' at a gig can reach more people now than when he was calling Bush an asshole in 04, more people can react, positive or negative. 

[Hermione]

1 hour ago, LPbilliejr said:

Wow and you started your rant with an outright incorrect statistic. You are a part of the reason real sexual assault cases get placed on the back-burner for the "lets call everything rape crowd." Real rape is violent, heinous, and inhumane, not because you had sex when you were drunk and regretted it afterwards. That statistic is trash and of course you couldn't give a rats ass to do some real investigating on someone you hold to be so damn true

It had nothing to do with feelings, if a said person does not fit the definition of what you are labeling he/she, then you are lying.

I doubt anyone is particularly interested in hearing your definition of "real rape" in this thread.

Similarly as @stories and songs said no one's going to write an essay about Trump here. Whether his views are fascist is something that can be debated (rather than it being about "lying") but the topic of this thread is the criticism Green Day have received over voicing their views on Trump/Bush so it isn't the place for it, there's the thread in General Chat for that.

14 minutes ago, Jake69 said:

Wow! You seem like a very understanding and nice person. Have a great day friend! 

Does Trump seem like a very understanding and nice person to you? It seems kind of strange for supporters of his to be bothered by people being impolite during a debate, or more pertinently to this topic bothered when Green Day is rude about him, when Trump's whole thing is being rude and insulting without apology.

[Cunt]

10 hours ago, Jenn. said:

Babies aren't just an inconvenience, they're life changing and require dedicated care and upbringing, and also super expensive. Some women's lives aren't suited for a child. Abortion isn't taken lightly by anyone so not sure where that notion came from. And banning abortion only bans safe abortion - women will still have them but it will be dangerous to do so. 

Edit: I'm aware this isn't exactly on topic so I'll stop now!

Again I understand bad respect your opinion. 

[Hermione]

40 minutes ago, Jake69 said:

Oh so him saying fuck every trump supporter on here is cool but me calling him not very understanding is where it crosses the line. Cool beans. Hmm... it seems like this mod team is little biased. 🤔

I don't think either crosses a line (fuck Trump and his supporters is a general insult rather than something aimed personally at an individual GDC member), not using my mod powers against anyone lol. I'm just curious as to why Trump supporters object to anti-Trump people or bands being rude about Trump but don't mind the constant rudeness of Trump himself.

[Cunt]

9 hours ago, I don't care said:

I see your point, but the problem here is that so called "safe" sex isn't safe. There's always a risk that the condom breaks and pills are no guarantee, either. The only 100% sure way to not get pregnant is to, well, not have sex. The problem in this debate is that everyone's definition of a "baby" seems to differ, so perhaps one should clarify that first. I don't consider a foetus a "baby", simply because it's still somehow part of its mother's body, a bundle of cells in its mother's body. You say that "the "clump of cells" feels its spinal cord being snapped and in fact twitches when it happens.", can you cite a source? I would love to see where you found it (not sarcastically).

Also, guys, mutual respect is vital for a pleasant debate climate. Everyone is allowed an opinion, whether you like their stance or not. The least one can do is try to keep it civil.

My bad. I should have said that they only really snap spinal chords at like 20-30 something weeks. Other than that they typically suck out the baby. I should have been a little bit more descriptive. Anyhow I'm done trying to debate. Nobody's changing anyone's mind haha. 

[Billie Joes Eyelids]

2 hours ago, LPbilliejr said:

Wow and you started your rant with an outright incorrect statistic. You are a part of the reason real sexual assault cases get placed on the back-burner for the "lets call everything rape crowd." Real rape is violent, heinous, and inhumane, not because you had sex when you were drunk and regretted it afterwards. That statistic is trash and of course you couldn't give a rats ass to do some real investigating on someone you hold to be so damn true

It had nothing to do with feelings, if a said person does not fit the definition of what you are labeling he/she, then you are lying.

Thank you once again for proving my point about Trump supporters! 😂

[AlissaGoesRAWR]

1 hour ago, Jake69 said:

Oh so him saying fuck every trump supporter on here is cool but me calling him not very understanding is where it crosses the line. Cool beans. Hmm... it seems like this mod team is little biased. 🤔

What's wrong snowflake, are you offended by someone being mean?  

Seriously though... can we try to keep this thread on topic? It's not an abortion debate thread or a "this political party is worse than my political party" thread. All the moral police on here are getting a bit out of hand on both sides of this political shitshow.