Jump to content

Controlling My Feelings For Too Long

Sign in to follow this  
  • entries
    25
  • comments
    194
  • views
    6,355

Philosophical Discussion #1

Sign in to follow this  
BetterThanAir

897 views

Hi guys! I couldn't seem to find a philosophy thread anywhere and I love anything philosophical. If there is one, could someone please link me it? And if there isn't one, would anyone be up for/like to start a thread called something like 'Philosophical Stuff' or even have a club for it? I've already made two threads since I started posting again (one which wasn't serious though) so I would feel weird making another, especially if it isn't allowed.

Anyhow, I am almost done my philosophy paper, and it's discussing whether alcoholics should be eligible or not eligible for liver transplantation.

Here is what I am essentially working with: "First, alcoholics are morally blameworthy, their condition is the result of their own misconduct; such blameworthiness disqualifies alcoholics in unavoidable competition for organs with others who are equally sick but blameless. Second, because of their habits alcoholics will not exhibit satisfactory rates of survival after transplantation; god stewardship of a scarce lifesaving resources therefor requires that alcoholics not be considered for liver transplantation."

The columnist Carl Choen from Ann Arbor, MI, USA wrote an article going against those two arguments in a moral and medical standpoint, and I agree with him completely. The article is about three pages in length, so if anyone is up for a read, here it is in PDF form:

http://www.luminpdf.com/files/15125586/Alcoholics%2Band%2BLiver%2BTransplantation.pdf

My opinion morally: We don't deny smoker's the right to certain transplantations, so why should alcoholics be denied? The lifestyle isn't healthy but if someone is on a wait list for an organ for years, they shouldn't be denied. They could suffer from this addiction due to multiple reasons, and since it is so socially unacceptable to be an alcoholic, the individual could have felt ashamed to seek help.

Medically: It is still being debated whether alcoholism is a self inflicted addiction or if it could qualify under the DSM5 mental illness handbook, or even a type of disease. The issue is so common and affects every one in ten American families drastically. Someone who has a high form of cancer could just as easily reject the liver as much as an alcoholic could.

My overall opinion: I believe that alcoholics shouldn't be denied the right to their life and should be given a chance to have a liver transplantation, but I believe immediate rehabilitation should be granted as well, so the individual could make a physical and mental recovery smoothly.

If anyone actually took the time to read this, please let me know what you think down below. :) If people actually enjoyed talking about this, maybe I could do a number two!

  • Like 7
Sign in to follow this  


19 Comments


Recommended Comments

BetterThanAir

Posted

Are you one of those lofty beings who actually does philosophy? There are so few of them on this site. Your high-mindedness has not gone unnoticed, I look forward to seeing the remarks and comments of a forum member who is a real, live philosopher.

However, I regret to say that I am not interested in seeing a number two from you. I am not a doctor.

No, I don't take philosophy as my major. It was a required class for my programme so I had to take it. It's kind of interesting though and I just thought it would make good conversation.

I'm not claiming to be high minded or anything. I actually think very poorly of myself. I just figured maybe someone would want to talk about it with me because it's an interesting topic. :) Sorry if I came across as thinking I'm insanely smart. I'm probably not.

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

To answer the question raised in your blog post, one must consider the alcoholic's motives and frame of mind, for that which is not seen is of more consequence than that which we see on this physical plane of reality. Indeed, the mental attitude of the alcoholic patient who has unfortunately been bridled with the sore trial of a failing liver exceeds all other considerations. If the sufferer feels deeply the pangs of regret for his or her prior behaviors, a longing to grasp life anew and try again, a willingness to succumb to the necessary rehabilitation and to valiantly wage the war between the physical lusts of the flesh and the noble aspirations of the spirit in order to defeat the desire to, as it is colloquially phrased, "drink like a fish," that person must indeed be considered an unlikely candidate for a transfer, as it is likely that they will kill themselves and their new-found liver with the boredom that their new, sober lifestyle will lavish upon them.

However, if said alcoholic defiantly refuses to repent from their ways, the only thing left to do is to give them leave to engage in their preferred behaviors, and indeed to consider granting a new organ to them in order to prolong their fun whilst inhabiting this earthly coil. And when, inevitably, the day arrives that they must retreat to the grave, may they do so with the holy words of Father Fintan Stack upon their lips: "I've had my fun, and that's all that matters."

Okay. :) Thanks.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Trotsky

Posted

I think organ donation should be done solely by lottery; nothing else considered.

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

I think organ donation should be done solely by lottery; nothing else considered.

So, no wait lists or anything?

Share this comment


Link to comment
AlissaGoesRAWR

Posted

Are you one of those lofty beings who actually does philosophy? There are so few of them on this site. Your high-mindedness has not gone unnoticed, I look forward to seeing the remarks and comments of a forum member who is a real, live philosopher.

However, I regret to say that I am not interested in seeing a number two from you. I am not a doctor.

I didn't know you do philosophy.

Thank the based God someone took advantage of this softball of an opportunity.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

Thank the based God someone took advantage of this softball of an opportunity.

What do you mean?

Share this comment


Link to comment
Trotsky

Posted

So, no wait lists or anything?

I just mean, the idea that worthiness of life can be objectively decided upon is bullshit.

Share this comment


Link to comment
HungryHungryModels

Posted

I don't see why alcoholics shouldn't be considered for a liver transplant. Besides, it's not just easy to get "on a list". For smokers, I know, that it is really a challenge to even be considered a candidate. Even if you are really young, and your condition is so life threatening that doctors can't explain why you're still alive... You can't just get "on a list". For starters, you have to go through a bunch of physical tests at the doctor with tons of follow up appointments. And then you are directed further to go to a smoking cessation class even if you already quit smoking, which lasts for 8 weeks, and do required physical activities even if your condition is to the point that it's almost impossible to do any physical activity, such as shower. And then you have to go to some larger institution in a city further away than comfortable driving, and do a 3 day consultation. The process is lengthy and takes lots of effort. I believe doctors ensure that the addiction, whether it be smoking, or the problem, alcohol, is handled well before just given an organ. So there's that.

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

I just mean, the idea that worthiness of life can be objectively decided upon is bullshit.

I agree. :)

I don't see why alcoholics shouldn't be considered for a liver transplant. Besides, it's not just easy to get "on a list". For smokers, I know, that it is really a challenge to even be considered a candidate. Even if you are really young, and your condition is so life threatening that doctors can't explain why you're still alive... You can't just get "on a list". For starters, you have to go through a bunch of physical tests at the doctor with tons of follow up appointments. And then you are directed further to go to a smoking cessation class even if you already quit smoking, which lasts for 8 weeks, and do required physical activities even if your condition is to the point that it's almost impossible to do any physical activity, such as shower. And then you have to go to some larger institution in a city further away than comfortable driving, and do a 3 day consultation. The process is lengthy and takes lots of effort. I believe doctors ensure that the addiction, whether it be smoking, or the problem, alcohol, is handled well before just given an organ. So there's that.

What someone in my class said is that since the government would be paying for all of their tests and stuff, it's selfish for tax dollars to fund that because it's a scarce lifesaving transplant and those tax dollars can go to fund someone like a child who is dying of cancer. They also said these people and smoker's shouldn't qualify for any tests or wait lists. I think that's a horrible thought though.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
HungryHungryModels

Posted

What someone in my class said is that since the government would be paying for all of their tests and stuff, it's selfish for tax dollars to fund that because it's a scarce lifesaving transplant and those tax dollars can go to fund someone like a child who is dying of cancer. They also said these people and smoker's shouldn't qualify for any tests or wait lists. I think that's a horrible thought though.

That's insane. No one's life should be more justifiable than someone else's. And it's not the taxpayer's dollars... It's the people who have worked their whole lives and pay an extreme amount of money for health insurance, at least here in America. Canada is different, I know. Some people go long periods of time without health insurance because they can't afford it, and it doesn't always cover every thing. There's almost always an out of pocket expense. Your classmates need to think a little bit more open minded. Wait till one of them fucks up, then how would they feel? It's not always someone's intention to fall victim of smoking addiction. But at least if you need the help, there should be no question about it due to your past.

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

That's insane. No one's life should be more justifiable than someone else's. And it's not the taxpayer's dollars... It's the people who have worked their whole lives and pay an extreme amount of money for health insurance, at least here in America. Canada is different, I know. Some people go long periods of time without health insurance because they can't afford it, and it doesn't always cover every thing. There's almost always an out of pocket expense. Your classmates need to think a little bit more open minded. Wait till one of them fucks up, then how would they feel? It's not always someone's intention to fall victim of smoking addiction. But at least if you need the help, there should be no question about it due to your past.

Exactly. I know that the statistics show some people's bodies are more prone to rejecting a new organ if they use substances but it's really no different than someone with terminal cancer. Then again, a lot of them disagree with the things I say. Some of them said it was 'cruel' to keep depressed people alive on this earth and they should be euthanized. How sick is that?

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
HungryHungryModels

Posted

Exactly. I know that the statistics show some people's bodies are more prone to rejecting a new organ if they use substances but it's really no different than someone with terminal cancer. Then again, a lot of them disagree with the things I say. Some of them said it was 'cruel' to keep depressed people alive on this earth and they should be euthanized. How sick is that?

That's disturbing. What the heck? Those people, man... Need a wake up call.

Share this comment


Link to comment
BetterThanAir

Posted

That's disturbing. What the heck? Those people, man... Need a wake up call.

LOL definitely. I go to school with some interesting people.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

ah, philosophy :wub: this is a very interesting topic you've said Mimi. I can see the argument on how one might think giving a transplant to an alcoholic has the potential to be wasteful, but at the same time you've given good arguments against that. Moral discussions are a lot of fun, but I tend to sit on the fence a lot. I'll have to read that article and think about it.

I'm not that knowledgeable over philosophy yet, I'm only in a 100 level class haha. But i hope to get a Philosophy minor when I graduate :) I'm glad you posted this! I didn't know there was already a philosophy thread either, haha.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...