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"The Political Lesbian"

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BetterThanAir

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Okay, so this is my first blog post, I guess. I would do some form of formal introduction, but in my opinion, there is no way for me to introduce myself without seeming incredibly pretentious...so, we'll just start off with this.

The programme in which I am enrolled in at University requires me to learn about a lot of things like marginalization, oppression, political policies, counselling, etc. Although we have to learn about a lot of topics, there are still females in my classes who have to relate everything back to the same topic...

Feminism.

We do discuss feminism a lot in my programme, as it is one of the main things we focus on. I've had to learn about things from every form of feminism, to vagina highlighters. If you knew me, you'd know that every time we get to this unit of feminism, I want to rip my hair out.

As if I couldn't be any more irritated, I was going over my notes on this topic for the final exam, and caught the term "The Political Lesbian" within my notes. Forgetting this term completely, I reread the whole chapter and was absolutely disgusted by what I read.

This term is a term used by Lesbian Feminism/Feminists. Lesbian Feminism focusses on dismantling heteronormativity (which I actually do support), combating patriarchy, and destroying gender roles. Their main claim is that cis-men who are in heterosexual relationships are primarily only interested in a woman for sex, a "trophy", or for any other sexual purposes. They also claim that cis-women in heterosexual relationships rely on men solely for safety, security, comfort, and economic stability.

Lesbian Feminism believes a main way we can prevent these 'needs' and 'interests' from happening is targeting heteronormativity and cisnormativity in the media and such. I don't necessarily have an issue with this, but it's the next part that literally sickens me...

Since feminists of this category are known to be somewhat radical (although, there is a separate form of feminism called 'Radical Feminism'), many women have joined the movement of 'The Political Lesbian'.

Cis-women who are heterosexual (attracted to men 100%) refuse to be with a man sexually and relationship wise because they do not want to 'feed into their sexual cravings' and 'fuel their ego, which fuels patriarchy'. Since these women need their sexual needs fulfilled as well, they will force themselves to become lesbian. This doesn't mean solely hooking up with women who are also Political Lesbian's, or finding bisexual women or one-night-flings or whatever. These women are forcing homosexual relationships with other women who don't know that these women are just doing this as some sort of point against men.

This angers me to no end and this is exactly why some people don't take gay rights seriously; a lot of people say that homosexuals fake it, or choose to be gay/lesbian. In my opinion, these feminists aren't making any positive changes at all, but are instead insulting people of the LGBTQ community, a community which they claim to be supporting 150%. The whole movement is being contradicted by the radical women who think violating their own sexual beliefs and desires will do anything to change society. They are eventually going to break it off with these women they are leading on, and those women will have broken hearts and feel completely used. I don't see why damaging people who are already oppressed isn't being taken into consideration into these women's very narrow, irrational, and unrealistic minds. If they want to be taken seriously, perhaps they should use some logic and think of ways to make the changes they want in ways which don't harm anyone.

Anyways, sorry about that rant. I honestly could go on and on about this, but I'm going to stop here. Thanks to anyone who read this. I'll probably post something else when I come home from work.

Let me know what you think.

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HungryHungryModels

Posted

Interesting, I've thought about this. Didn't know there was a term for it. I feel like being gay is kind of just becoming a trend for hipster type people who are just being gay for the sake of it, and it takes away from everyone else. I can't wait until gay rights are to the point where it's no big deal to be gay. Seriously.

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Wouldn't the problem be erased if we had general equality amongst all genders, abolished all pre constructed roles and were able to have a harmonious mix of matriarchal and patriarchal societies?

In saying that, you come across as someone who doesn't believe in Feminism and constructs the concept/idea that radical feminism is only touted by those who want to deny giving men pleasure and authority, hence erasing all traces of the patriarchal society they were once apart of. I don't know if its true or not, but that seems to be my perspective.

If anything, such issues wouldn't be constructed or raised if equal opportunity and equality was afforded to both genders in attempt to erase such radical feminism. Society needs to be dismantled and thrown into chaos in order for a revolution for change to occur. People need to be shown more compassion, love, hope, kindness and taught general manners which can afford for these changes to occur.

Idk. I just think change can only occur through radicalization of different perspectives and ideas.

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Sexuality is fluid. Also, I don't really get what you mean. Also, bisexuality is a thing, I can guarantee it personally. So I don't really see what you're aiming at, but I'm kind of interested.

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Also #Savannah. How you can determine who's gay enough and who's not? In a society like ours I guarantee nobody fakes their sexuality because people are still very narrow-minded. The reason why more people are coming out now is because we finally have the chance TO BE WHAT WE ARE. I can see myself dating women, but I'm not a heterosexual. Impossible? I don't think so. I'm a bit offended, actually. Bisexuals, asexuals, pansexuals, agender folk, demisexuals etc often get written off as fakers, attention-seekers and tumblr freaks and your opinion is not helping at all. It's not gay and straight, just as it's not only men and women. I'm not trying to start a row with you, just pointing the facts out.

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HungryHungryModels

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I see where you're coming from, but as Mimi even pointed out, people are going to extremes to be a part of something, such as gay, bisexual, etc. I'm sorry that I don't know all of these different terms for sexuality, but I'm well aware that everyone is different, and deserves their own rights. I'm not saying that you can tell who is gay and not, but I know girls who've told me in school that they're bisexual, but then a year later they're like... Dating boys and said that it must have just been a phase or something. You know? Those are the kind of people I mean. I'm sorry you're offended. Why exactly are you? I never called you a "faker". If everyone is to their own, I'm not calling out every gay person in the world, just saying that there are people who claim to be bisexual or gay, just to be "trendy" but then take it back some time later.

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BetterThanAir

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Todd, essentially, these women are 100% heterosexual. They admit to being heterosexual and are not attracted to women. But to 'deteriorate patriarchy' and not give into men's sexual needs, these women refuse to be with a man. BUT, to fulfill their own sexual needs, they will date other women (to "empower" them and/or fulfill their own sexual needs) mainly with the intent of 'We don't need men to be happy."

I don't really get it

Wouldn't the problem be erased if we had general equality amongst all genders, abolished all pre constructed roles and were able to have a harmonious mix of matriarchal and patriarchal societies?

In saying that, you come across as someone who doesn't believe in Feminism and constructs the concept/idea that radical feminism is only touted by those who want to deny giving men pleasure and authority, hence erasing all traces of the patriarchal society they were once apart of. I don't know if its true or not, but that seems to be my perspective.

If anything, such issues wouldn't be constructed or raised if equal opportunity and equality was afforded to both genders in attempt to erase such radical feminism. Society needs to be dismantled and thrown into chaos in order for a revolution for change to occur. People need to be shown more compassion, love, hope, kindness and taught general manners which can afford for these changes to occur.

Idk. I just think change can only occur through radicalization of different perspectives and ideas.

Milan, I agree with you 110% (like I usually do), but I'm sorry....if one of the main goals of lesbian feminism is to stand up against heternormativity and equality amongst the LGBTQ community, are they not in a sense mocking thos who are bisexual/homosexual/pansexual/etc? They have the ideology of forced sexuality, or even just switching sexuality to go against men, like it's as simple as changing your pillow case. I find that mentality absolutely insulting to the LGBTQ community because it's saying people can just switch, and there are so many people who are homosexual or bisexual or pansexual struggling to let people know they didn't choose their sexuality.

Sexuality is fluid. Also, I don't really get what you mean. Also, bisexuality is a thing, I can guarantee it personally. So I don't really see what you're aiming at, but I'm kind of interested.

Sauli, hopefully my posts above somewhat clarify what I mean. I know I can be a bit confusing sometimes.

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but I know girls who've told me in school that they're bisexual, but then a year later they're like... Dating boys and said that it must have just been a phase or something. You know? \

and what's wrong with that? Sauli said it, sexuality's fluid. Just because they're bisexual at one point in their life doesn't mean that won't change. It doesn't make their past attraction to women meaningless. There's this curious kind of intersection between sexism and homophobia (actually specifically biphobia I guess) that tells people any bisexual women - especially teenage girls - are faking it for attention. Based on the stereotypes that 1, bisexuality is made up and 2, teenage girls will do anything for attention.

I also don't quite agree with the OP. I mean, I'm not an expert on political lesbianism but the way you're describing it and from what little I've read otherwise, they're just women who don't want to be with men. What's wrong with that? Obviously they shouldn't force themselves to be with men if it's not what they want. I also know that not all political lesbians force themselves to sleep with women they're not attracted to, like you're suggesting. Most are just celibate. Maybe in that way lesbian is the wrong term, since the point of political lesbianism is not to have sex with women, but to abstain from sex with men. They're women who don't like the heterosexual norms of cis female/cis male sex, marriage, children, etc. So they don't take part.

But hey, if you know of any readings online you might have used, I'd like to read them.

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Milan, I agree with you 110% (like I usually do), but I'm sorry....if one of the main goals of lesbian feminism is to stand up against heternormativity and equality amongst the LGBTQ community, are they not in a sense mocking thos who are bisexual/homosexual/pansexual/etc? They have the ideology of forced sexuality, or even just switching sexuality to go against men, like it's as simple as changing your pillow case. I find that mentality absolutely insulting to the LGBTQ community because it's saying people can just switch, and there are so many people who are homosexual or bisexual or pansexual struggling to let people know they didn't choose their sexuality.

Whilst I agree with you Mimi, I also have the tendency to disagree with this statement and belief.

Unfortunately everything within society needs to be assigned a label, an place and an ideology to inherently make it seem purposeful, useful and in place with everything else. The problem with Lesbian Feminism and the constraints of the patriarchal society that we live in resonates within the constraints and constructions of pre-assigned roles that were determined by our forefathers in the formation of democracy and other political systems before we were born.

Remember way back in history when men were the hunters and the females were the gatherers? That ideology is still in place today because the world/society itself is to scared to break the cycle and create change. Because it is far easier to assign ourselves to the comforts of a predetermined role rather then walking the path that is unknown. Incessantly meaning we are afraid of what we don't know.

But how does this itself relate to the predetermined notions and creations of sexuality and gender? Well inherently humans are able to identify themselves through the use of their sexual organs, Men have a penis and Woman have an Vagina and whilst this seems simple, it really isn't. Gender is not something that can be assigned, it is fluid. Men can have hints of femininity and Woman can have hints of Masculinity, this is predetermined by our social and economical environments and the people we interact with. A child with no father is going to be fare more feminine then the one with a father, is this wrong? Is it wrong to pre-assume the social identity of a child based upon the labels we use for comfort to assure that everything is tagged and has purpose? The same can be said for Sexuality, but neither are permanent because they are constantly changing, evolving and morphing to the adaptation of society around us. We as humans without the assignments of gender or sexuality are an product of the world that shapes us.

Unfortunately, Lesbian Feminism is the product of Woman who have decided to challenge the way that mainstream society is and unfortunately maybe some of them have flipped that switch to change. Gender and Sexuality should be fluid and free flowing, not contained to tags because people want to have everything assigned and thats the problem with modern society and because they refuse to challenge the preconceived ancient structure of hierarchy. Easier to conform to the rules then it is to break them.

If anything, I just think that people need to understand that our wants, needs and desires can change due to the flow of life and that not everything can be controlled, be forced or absolute because as the world changes, so do we.

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BetterThanAir

Posted

and what's wrong with that? Sauli said it, sexuality's fluid. Just because they're bisexual at one point in their life doesn't mean that won't change. It doesn't make their past attraction to women meaningless. There's this curious kind of intersection between sexism and homophobia (actually specifically biphobia I guess) that tells people any bisexual women - especially teenage girls - are faking it for attention. Based on the stereotypes that 1, bisexuality is made up and 2, teenage girls will do anything for attention.

I also don't quite agree with the OP. I mean, I'm not an expert on political lesbianism but the way you're describing it and from what little I've read otherwise, they're just women who don't want to be with men. What's wrong with that? Obviously they shouldn't force themselves to be with men if it's not what they want. I also know that not all political lesbians force themselves to sleep with women they're not attracted to, like you're suggesting. Most are just celibate. Maybe in that way lesbian is the wrong term, since the point of political lesbianism is not to have sex with women, but to abstain from sex with men. They're women who don't like the heterosexual norms of cis female/cis male sex, marriage, children, etc. So they don't take part.

But hey, if you know of any readings online you might have used, I'd like to read them.

If you'd like to see my written class notes, I'd be more than happy to send them to you. Other than that, that's all I have got, which was 100% on my exam for this class on Wednesday.

Whilst I agree with you Mimi, I also have the tendency to disagree with this statement and belief.

Unfortunately everything within society needs to be assigned a label, an place and an ideology to inherently make it seem purposeful, useful and in place with everything else. The problem with Lesbian Feminism and the constraints of the patriarchal society that we live in resonates within the constraints and constructions of pre-assigned roles that were determined by our forefathers in the formation of democracy and other political systems before we were born.

Remember way back in history when men were the hunters and the females were the gatherers? That ideology is still in place today because the world/society itself is to scared to break the cycle and create change. Because it is far easier to assign ourselves to the comforts of a predetermined role rather then walking the path that is unknown. Incessantly meaning we are afraid of what we don't know.

But how does this itself relate to the predetermined notions and creations of sexuality and gender? Well inherently humans are able to identify themselves through the use of their sexual organs, Men have a penis and Woman have an Vagina and whilst this seems simple, it really isn't. Gender is not something that can be assigned, it is fluid. Men can have hints of femininity and Woman can have hints of Masculinity, this is predetermined by our social and economical environments and the people we interact with. A child with no father is going to be fare more feminine then the one with a father, is this wrong? Is it wrong to pre-assume the social identity of a child based upon the labels we use for comfort to assure that everything is tagged and has purpose? The same can be said for Sexuality, but neither are permanent because they are constantly changing, evolving and morphing to the adaptation of society around us. We as humans without the assignments of gender or sexuality are an product of the world that shapes us.

Unfortunately, Lesbian Feminism is the product of Woman who have decided to challenge the way that mainstream society is and unfortunately maybe some of them have flipped that switch to change. Gender and Sexuality should be fluid and free flowing, not contained to tags because people want to have everything assigned and thats the problem with modern society and because they refuse to challenge the preconceived ancient structure of hierarchy. Easier to conform to the rules then it is to break them.

If anything, I just think that people need to understand that our wants, needs and desires can change due to the flow of life and that not everything can be controlled, be forced or absolute because as the world changes, so do we.

I'm aware that 'gender is fluid' and I'm getting a bit irritated that no one sees that I understand this 100%. I wouldn't clarify my sexuality as completely cis or "societally aligned" myself.

Also, for your point of masculinity and femininity, I believe we shouldn't even have those boxes or classifications (and this is what I was taught in my programme, anyways, and I agree with it) because what is masculine and what is feminine is very subjective based on cultural terms, environmental terms, etc.

Again, like I said, I just find it incredibly disrespectful to people who are actually homosexual or bisexual. You shouldn't use something as controversial by today's standards as sexuality to 'fight against men'.

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BetterThanAir

Posted

I'm just going to give up because clearly everything I say in real life, online, or in any way clearly is invalid.

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I wouldn't clarify my sexuality as completely cis or "societally aligned" myself.

do you know what cis means?

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BetterThanAir

Posted

do you know what cis means?

Yes, sorry, it was my error. Cis has to do with gender. Cisgenderism. Cisgender.

My point as I'm aware that gender is fluid. I wouldn't say mine is totally "straight".

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BetterThanAir

Posted

Is anyone "totally straight" anyway?

LOL I actually have never thought of that. I'm sure some people will 100% be like, "YES I AM!" but perhaps not.

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Is anyone "totally straight" anyway?

probably some people are, like some are totally gay, totally asexual. But I reckon a lot of people fall somewhere between. Even though I am a lesbian I still see there's a possibility I could be with a man one day, y'know?

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HungryHungryModels

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Wow, okay. I think you are all missing my point.

and what's wrong with that? Sauli said it, sexuality's fluid. Just because they're bisexual at one point in their life doesn't mean that won't change. It doesn't make their past attraction to women meaningless. There's this curious kind of intersection between sexism and homophobia (actually specifically biphobia I guess) that tells people any bisexual women - especially teenage girls - are faking it for attention. Based on the stereotypes that 1, bisexuality is made up and 2, teenage girls will do anything for attention.

I also don't quite agree with the OP. I mean, I'm not an expert on political lesbianism but the way you're describing it and from what little I've read otherwise, they're just women who don't want to be with men. What's wrong with that? Obviously they shouldn't force themselves to be with men if it's not what they want. I also know that not all political lesbians force themselves to sleep with women they're not attracted to, like you're suggesting. Most are just celibate. Maybe in that way lesbian is the wrong term, since the point of political lesbianism is not to have sex with women, but to abstain from sex with men. They're women who don't like the heterosexual norms of cis female/cis male sex, marriage, children, etc. So they don't take part.

But hey, if you know of any readings online you might have used, I'd like to read them.

So, even you think that people are narrow minded, and therefore, a lot of gay people (I'm just using the term "gay" to cover all sexualities besides "straight" right now so that I can get this typed out quickly.) have trouble "coming out". Luckily a lot more people are open minded today about this, compared to several generations ago. I for one am pretty much the only one in my house who believes in gay rights and gay marriage. My parents have raised me to be straight, and that's that. People can be gay if they want, but marriage is to be shared between a man and a woman. God gave us parts like a key and a lock and that's how things work. I tried to argue against them, and got yelled at, so I just keep my ideas to myself for now. -.- But anyways, so yeah, people still aren't quite excepting, and I'm sure you've known that gay people have faked being straight, just to somewhat feel "normal" and accepted. If that's possible, is it not possible to fake being gay? It is. Just google it. People have even faked being gay to commit crimes. A woman faked being lesbian to sexuality assault people. I understand "gender fluid" but I think you should also understand the point I was trying to make. And you know what? Maybe it shouldn't be a big deal. Maybe sexuality won't be a big deal in 50 years. Just like something such as eye color or hair color. Idk, but until then, with such attention nowadays, trying to legalize gay rights (which I support), sexuality is a big deal.

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Wow, okay. I think you are all missing my point.

So, even you think that people are narrow minded, and therefore, a lot of gay people (I'm just using the term "gay" to cover all sexualities besides "straight" right now so that I can get this typed out quickly.) have trouble "coming out". Luckily a lot more people are open minded today about this, compared to several generations ago. I for one am pretty much the only one in my house who believes in gay rights and gay marriage. My parents have raised me to be straight, and that's that. People can be gay if they want, but marriage is to be shared between a man and a woman. God gave us parts like a key and a lock and that's how things work. I tried to argue against them, and got yelled at, so I just keep my ideas to myself for now. -.- But anyways, so yeah, people still aren't quite excepting, and I'm sure you've known that gay people have faked being straight, just to somewhat feel "normal" and accepted. If that's possible, is it not possible to fake being gay? It is. Just google it. People have even faked being gay to commit crimes. A woman faked being lesbian to sexuality assault people. I understand "gender fluid" but I think you should also understand the point I was trying to make. And you know what? Maybe it shouldn't be a big deal. Maybe sexuality won't be a big deal in 50 years. Just like something such as eye color or hair color. Idk, but until then, with such attention nowadays, trying to legalize gay rights (which I support), sexuality is a big deal.

A few points.

1) We were talking how sexuality is fluid. The term "gender fluid" does not necessarily mean the same. I believe sexuality is fluid by nature, and that was what we were talking about it.

"Gender fluid" means people who experience that their gender is fluid, basically. I'm not very knowledgeable about this, and so I won't go into specifics. Other people may give you more information about the term if you want. But please try to use correct terms as it makes it easier to get what you're saying.

2) Once more. Sexuality is fluid. Especially when we are young it's fairly common and actually very healthy to experience with our sexuality. It does not mean that one is seeking for attention or faking. Also, pointing your finger at teenage girls specifically is quite sexist and I'd like to see the evidence that show that teenage girls are more prone to attention seeking than teenage boys. Bisexuality, it must be noted, alos by nature means that one can be attracted to two genders, male and female (not "attracted to both genders", since there are more genders than the mere two. ), so one can identify as a bisexual even though they never have relationships with people of the same gender, for example. So if a guy declares he is a bisexual, but never dates but gilrs and goes on to marry a woman and have etc, that does not invalidate their identity as a bisexual.

3) Do you really think that in a society as hetero-centered and narrow-minded as ours anyone in their right mind would really want to identify as something esle than a heterosexual if they did not truly feel so?

4) Whilst sexuality isn't a choice, why the fact that some women, regardless of their sexual orientation, decide to not to have relationships with men concerns you at all? It sounds a bit like those MRA-idiots, really. "Women do not have sex with me, I blame feminism."

5) If some criminal fakes their sexuality in order to commit a crime wtf it has to do with this at all? Criminals will always find their way.

And the last but not the least point is 6) Whilst sexuality obviously should not be a big deal in the eyes of other people, and so in a way it should not be a big deal at all, it is and will always be a big deal to an individual. So in a way you make it sound harmful, like "I support you alright, as long as you stay quiet and act nicely."

I hope this was useful enough an answer, and I do admit I am hardly an expert at these things and it shows trough, but there are some much more knowledgeable people on this forum who surely will answer your questions if you're curious (and respectful and polite.)

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HungryHungryModels

Posted

A few points.

1.) The topic was about Political Lesbians who admit to being heterosexual and are not attracted to women, but fulfill their sexual needs by being with women even though they could care less about the girl.

2.) I am not sexist at all, I was speaking from personal experience. If boys had told me that they were gay, and then said that they made it up just for the hell of it, then I would have used them as an example. Also, I never said that girls were more attention seeking than males.

3.) Like I said, today, people aren't as narrow minded as you think. According to http://www.gallup.com/poll/162398/sex-marriage-support-solidifies-above.aspx , over half of Americans support gay marriage. And yes, I do think that people could possibly fake their sexuality just for attention.

4.) Honestly, it doesn't really concern me. I initially made a point on topic, stating that people who fake their sexuality or go against what they truly feel just for something like ruining patriarchy or whatever... bothers me.

5.) The point is, people do fake their sexuality for different reasons. Attention can't be ruled out.

6.) I'm not trying to take away from anyone, and I've never intended to offend anyone for the sexuality. I believe that everyone should have the right to their own choice. (=

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If straight women wanna have sex with women who fucking cares. I really don't care who anyone has sex with and if women want to shag women to score political points or something good for them. I couldn't care less.

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DookieLukie

Posted

If straight women wanna have sex with women who fucking cares. I really don't care who anyone has sex with and if women want to shag women to score political points or something good for them. I couldn't care less.

For once I agree. People can do whatever they want. If it doesn't effect your life, who cares? Just ignore it and don't involve yourself with them.

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BetterThanAir

Posted

Thanks for all of the comments guys. I think after my last exam tomorrow I will post another topic to this blog. It's interesting reading what everyone has to say.

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Wow, okay. I think you are all missing my point.

So, even you think that people are narrow minded, and therefore, a lot of gay people (I'm just using the term "gay" to cover all sexualities besides "straight" right now so that I can get this typed out quickly.) have trouble "coming out". Luckily a lot more people are open minded today about this, compared to several generations ago. I for one am pretty much the only one in my house who believes in gay rights and gay marriage. My parents have raised me to be straight, and that's that. People can be gay if they want, but marriage is to be shared between a man and a woman. God gave us parts like a key and a lock and that's how things work. I tried to argue against them, and got yelled at, so I just keep my ideas to myself for now. -.- But anyways, so yeah, people still aren't quite excepting, and I'm sure you've known that gay people have faked being straight, just to somewhat feel "normal" and accepted. If that's possible, is it not possible to fake being gay? It is. Just google it. People have even faked being gay to commit crimes. A woman faked being lesbian to sexuality assault people. I understand "gender fluid" but I think you should also understand the point I was trying to make. And you know what? Maybe it shouldn't be a big deal. Maybe sexuality won't be a big deal in 50 years. Just like something such as eye color or hair color. Idk, but until then, with such attention nowadays, trying to legalize gay rights (which I support), sexuality is a big deal.

No. Queer people fake being straight to protect themselves. Hello, you're talking to a lesbian. Straight people don't need to do that. Political lesbians have absolutely no motive or reason to be with a woman they're not attracted to, because that's not the point of political lesbianism. And (like I told you before) in all my experience and research of "political lesbians", none of them - or maybe a very tiny minority - actually go into relationships with women. Even political lesbians admit the name is a misnomer, and that "politically celibate" would be more correct. Because most of them are celibate, they don't force themselves to have sex with women.

and who cares if they just have sex with women 'cause they don't wanna be with a man? Plenty of straight people make deals like that and no one's bothered about them. As long as their partners are aware of the point of the relationship - which I'm sure they would be - it's no big deal

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BetterThanAir

Posted

No. Queer people fake being straight to protect themselves. Hello, you're talking to a lesbian. Straight people don't need to do that. Political lesbians have absolutely no motive or reason to be with a woman they're not attracted to, because that's not the point of political lesbianism. And (like I told you before) in all my experience and research of "political lesbians", none of them - or maybe a very tiny minority - actually go into relationships with women. Even political lesbians admit the name is a misnomer, and that "politically celibate" would be more correct. Because most of them are celibate, they don't force themselves to have sex with women.

and who cares if they just have sex with women 'cause they don't wanna be with a man? Plenty of straight people make deals like that and no one's bothered about them. As long as their partners are aware of the point of the relationship - which I'm sure they would be - it's no big deal

The part I bolded was what I was really trying to target here on this post. I guess I just don't know how to explain things sometimes or get to the point.

You never replied to if you wanted to see my notes, so I just didn't post them. My teacher read out an article explaining how these two women were in a relationship for five years, and one broke it off with the other because she said being a political lesbian wasn't working out for her, or wasn't making changes (I don't have my book on me but she pretty much had given up on this). I felt horrible for the woman who thought the relationship was going well and she had found 'the one'. I do NOT mean this in an offensive way, but people who aren't "straight" are oppressed enough and have enough to deal with; why should her emotions have been toyed with like that?

A point someone brought up in class is that many homosexual people will try the whole 'fake it until you make it' deal, where they are with someone of the opposite gender because they want to be straight. In fact, my kindergarten teacher was married to her husband for fifty plus years, and he recently came out to her as homosexual. I figured it was something like his sexual preference had changed, but he said he's always been primarily been attracted to men. (Also, I only know this because this woman is my grandmother's close friend.) I don't think those types of things are right. She's a really broken lady now. At the same time though, I can somewhat understand why he did it, especially because I don't think being gay was as accepted then as it is now, and due to his cultural/family issues, they would have never accepted him. Being gay is considered unacceptable by so many people.

So why should heterosexual women (women who may have a 'better' intersectionality) do that?

I do appreciate you bringing up the point of celibacy though. I hadn't really thought of that point of the discussion/"movement". It's something that reminds me of Lysistrata and some people may find that whole idea comical, but ultimately if it works for them, cool.

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You never replied to if you wanted to see my notes, so I just didn't post them. My teacher read out an article explaining how these two women were in a relationship for five years, and one broke it off with the other because she said being a political lesbian wasn't working out for her, or wasn't making changes (I don't have my book on me but she pretty much had given up on this). I felt horrible for the woman who thought the relationship was going well and she had found 'the one'. I do NOT mean this in an offensive way, but people who aren't "straight" are oppressed enough and have enough to deal with; why should her emotions have been toyed with like that?

see, that's the problem. It's not that a straight woman was in a relationship with a queer woman (which is perfectly fine in itself if that's what they're both cool with). The problem is that the straight woman's partner was never made aware of the situation. She was deceitful. That's not right, especially for a 5 year relationship.

But if a straight woman doesn't want to be with a man, I still don't see a problem with her turning to women for sexual things. As long as her partners know what's the big deal?

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