The best atheists are those who experienced religion. I was raised Catholic too. And now it's easy to see. The child raping priests who preach morality. Or the Holy Vatican city, covered in gold and expensive artifacts while millions starve to death across the world.

Arguments with Catholics are fun. Normal protestants usually give up, Evangelicals are all brain dead tools anyway, so Catholics provide me an interesting debate because I know the church so well. I once asked a dedicated Catholic "Why does your church use pure gold chalices, when that money could be spent feeding the poor?". He went on about how "Jesus deserves our best". Well, Jesus also supposedely said "Whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me."

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter my kingdom". Another Bible verse. Yet the Catholic Church is buried in expensive artifacts, and Evangelicals are the capitalist pushers of America. Interesting, eh?

Most atheists know the Bible much better than Christians.

he was just kidding.


its like when you ask your mom what she wants for motehrs day and she says nothing. then you dont get her anything and she gets all pissed. well, thats jesus.

^interesting comparison

I lol'd..

How can that be if there is no God?

For the sake of argument. The God described in the bible is a merciless genocidal maniac.

I understand where you're going. I know the other side of the story but it's hard to explain. Ive only been a christian for 9 months now and I would hate it if I put more doubt into you because of my weak explanation. I could always ask my pastor or another leader if you want me to...

I was just reading the Bible and doing some study for you kinda. Because you think you get nothing from God at all. You want what others get. You're in doubt.
Can I say you find it difficult to have faith in God? Let me say this:
If you don't believe someone, it means you think that he is a liar. The Bible says that those who dont believe God accuse Him of lying.
You're really in need of more faith on this point. The key that unlocks the door of salvation is faith. Without faith, we cannot please God. Try establishing any sort of friendship without faith. Walk up to a woman and introduce yourself. When she tells you her name, say: "I dont believe you" . Watch her reaction. When she tells you where she works, say that you dont believe that either. Carry on like that for a while, and before long you may be nursing a black eye. Your lack of faith in her is a strong insinuation that she is a liar.
If she, a mere mortal, feels insulted by your lack of faith in her word, how much more do unbelievers insult Almighty God by refusing to believe His Word. In doing so, they are saying that God isnt worth trusting and that He is a liar and a deceiver. If a meaningfull human relationship cant be established without faith, what sort of relationship could we expect to have with God, if by our unbelief we continue to call Him a liar?

You know, when I accepted Jesus, I was also just standing in church in unbelieve. Everything was so unreal. Everyone was so going up in worship. And I experienced nothing at all. Untill there was a point that I knew I needed help no matter what and I told myself to go for it. I made the DECISION to focus completely on God. I made the CHOICE not to doubt His promise and His Word. I tried to contact Him during worship, I tried with praying. I felt nothing.
But the more I did it, the more familiar I got with it. It became normal to surrender and to talk to God, even though I often felt like nothing was happening and it was all for nothing. Yes I doubted too. I first found it stupid that I even gave my live to Christ. Untill I started to get really serious. At some international worship conferance we went to, it was the first time I lifted my hand to Him, closed my eyes and I felt contact. After that I still had and still have times I think He's not here. But I know in faith he is. But now more and more, at church, in my bedroom when im playing my music or when Im praying, I always lift my hands up, close my eyes and Im only worschipping. Nothing else in the world matters then. No obligations, no deadlines, no loneliness, no problems. When I do, I often feel energy through my body. I know the Holy Spirit is working in me because I let him. I also once fell when pastor prayed for me and woke up maybe a minute later.
Maybe it seems to you that you want to experience that feeling too and you waited for it so long already and you tried everything. But now examine yourself. Have you completely surrendered? Are there no doubts? Is it by own choice or are you forcing yourself because you just want to feel something? Maybe there's the burden between you and God.

Not necessarily. I don't believe in God, I do not think he's lying, I simply do not think he exists. I think the bible and all that has to do with it is just a tale, a story, someone wrote long ago while being bored. I don't think he lies, I don't think he really exists.

it just sounds like you managed to brainwash yourself to be honest.

Me? How am I brainwashed?
I just don't believe in things I don't see, or feel.

not you idiot <3

Ah.

If you dont believe... you find it not true
If you read what i wrote.. saying: "I dont believe you" .. makes you believe the other person is a liar.
You're denying God. Saying he isn't true. That's making Him a liar in your sight.


Ive found something else. Last thing for now I promise

"I made a commitment but nothing happened."
Some people don't get past "square one" because they trust in their feelings rather than God. His promises are true, despite our feelings. If I make a promise to my husband, that promise is true whether she is feeling happy or sad. If she doubts my word, then she brings a slur to my integrity.
Anyone who genuinely repents and trusts in Christ will be saved. The Bible makes this promise: "He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" [John 14:21]. There's the promise, and there's the condition. Any person who loves and obeys Jesus will begin a supernatural relationship woth Him and the Father. He said: "And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" [John 17:3]. That doesnt mean you will hear voices or see visions. God will instead make you a new person from within. He will send His Spirit to live within you. You will have a new heart with new desires. You will suddenly become conscious of God and His creation. The Bible will open up to you and become a living Word, and you will have an inner witness that you are saved, that your name is written in heaven, and that death has lost its sting [1 John 5:10-12].

because bad thing happen? so the god in the bible only exists if the world is perfect?

Im still aware of everything around me. Im still aware of my life before Christ.
I just made a decision and it worked for the good for me.
I don't care if you call it brainwashed. I know where I want to stand in life.
And I'm proud of it.
I live my life the same way as I did before. But now WITH Christ. And yes my thinking has changed but all in good ways. The ONLY "fiction" in my head you'll find is that I believe in God and His creation. All other things, life styles etc you learn together with your religion are normal earthy things. Respect, trust, helpfull, how to deal with temptations/anger/diappointment etc, no judginging, no swearing, no violence, etc etc etc

It's not making him a liar, it's making him fictional, non-existant.
This will perhaps make me look shallow, but I don't believe in things that I can't see, feel, nor touch.
I don't believe in God, I don't believe in ghosts, but I don't judge people who do. And honestly, I don't mind it, my family is catholic and I've got nothing against them, as long as they don't try to change me nor talk about religion 24/7. Then it gets fucking pathetic.

Yvonne, good for you for sticking up for what you believe in.

There are so many people here that have no faith in anything, and many of them are so miserable and unhappy, and it is so interesting to me that many of these people think if you choose to believe in Christ, you are brainwashed, brainless, stupid, like a puppet on a string with no brain.

Its honestly not any different than choosing NOT to believe in Him. Its a choice, a decision one has made.

I don't think she's brainwashed and stupid. I just think it's annoying when someone talks about him (and only about him) 24/7. It's like "dude, don't you have a life of your own?"

But maybe that's just lil' close-minded me.

You dont have to read it. But for the record I wasnt talking about you. You have a right to believe or not to believe in God. Its not my place or anyone else's to tell you that you should be doing something different. I just think some of the people here have some silly ways of arguing about God.

I have a question (not so much a question as your opinion) for all the athiests and agnostic people. what do think of our currency containing "In God We Trust"

That makes sense, heh. I know you're right, but I like reading everyone's opinion (on the things I find interesting and worthy to discuss) and when I get to her posts I just get that *keep scrolling, keep scrolling* feeling.

I feel like I am starting to act like a SB, I better get out of here lol.

Good for Yvonne.
I'm proud of you for sticking up for what you believe in.

im presbyterian. presbyterian church of the united states, specifically. find someone else, anyone else in the world that is(beside dwight eisenhower). i guarantee you probably wont.

Conservative moralism = no fun No fun = wasted life.My friend is some kind of Presbyterian. Well not really. He's agnostic, he just likes his church because the youth room is filled with computers and all the kids at the church stay up all night playing Dawn of War and drinking Bawls.Apparently not, since the god in the bible is genocidal.Even if I was a Christian I'd be against it. This is a secular state.

thanks. and totally true.



you cant be blamed for that.
And you dont believe in God.. well thats your choice.. so everything I say is BS anyway. So and here i am again and again and again.. telling things over and over about the same thing that isnt true at all. Makes you not wanna listen to me anymore because its too much non-sense i keep telling you about. You're not interested in that.
But its not that i or anyone is forcing you to read it and/or believe it. It's way more valuable to state own opinions and explain them. And no one is gonna give you a dirty look over it. Well, not me at least.

I dont have a clue where you get that. We do have fun. We do everything you and anyone else does. We party, we go out, we laugh, we prank around, we're enjoying life.......

You may think that.
But I can assure you that many people including myself and Yvonne would say that you're wrong.

Well I'm sorry. Sex, drugs and Satanic music have made my life so much fucking better.

well good for you that it did. thats where YOUR fun is
Our fun is in other things maybe. but because its not something YOU like, it doesn't mean it isn't fun for us.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

You don't have to watch the whole 2 hours, but I would strongly encourage the first 40 minutes of it for you.

I agree. Just because someone is conservative doesn't mean they don't know how to have fun.

i don't remember saying that religious people are stupid, oh yes that's because i didn't. have you read what i put on the previous page? (i think it's the previous page, if not it's the page before that)

no problem.
I love it how God/religion is making me more understanding and stronger every sec in my faith.
But i gotta watch it tomorrow. My [stolen] wireless cant handle the streaming of it and my laptops sounds is broken. So ill watch it tomorrow on my pc.

The only reason I even bother arguing is because I think my opinions deserve an equal shot. There are thousands of religious people out there who are trying to hook all of those who are unsure. I'm just presenting an alternative to those people. How is that not fair?Okay.

Well if they make your life better then good for you.
I can't tell you how to run your life.
I can only make suggestions.

But I respect your opinion, despite the fact that I don't agree with you.
I'm not trying to be a bible thumper in all of this.
I'm just trying to get my opinion across as well.
And if we both show each other respect then that's good.

I can preach, watch.

Kelly's avatar is too fucking scary to be the product of evolution. There is a god!

i think it's sad that we pride ourselves on the diversity of our country and our 1st amendment "freedom of religion" rights, yet we force the christian god on people who don't believe it.

in addition, i don't think "under god" should be in the pledge of allegiance. i don't say the pledge though i am obligated through the threats of school administration to stand for it.

I don't say it either, but sometimes I'll say it really loudly and when the "Under god" part comes on, I will move to a casual standing position and go silent. I just like to see reactions from people.

From what you time, you certainly dont seem like a content individual..If you didnt say it then why are you responding to the comment? If you didnt say it then it wasnt directed at you.

how dare you, look at his cute yet scary face and apologise.


because you mentioned brainwashed, and i was the only person to have mentioned that.

Did someone say it wasnt fair? You have a right to state your opinion, but you are shoving yours down everyones throat, which is why you post in this thread 10 times a day. If you were presenting an alternative, you would present it and let it be. Not shove it down everyones throat that doesnt agree with you, or has an opposing opinion, 10 times a day in this thread. Gimme a break.if you read back thru all 45 pages of this thread there are alot more people that mention brainwashed than you. I was speaking in general. Not directly to you, in fact I didnt even know you said anything.

why do you always edit your post? why don't you just say what you want to say in the first place.

why do you care? Maybe after I post it i see something i want to change. Isnt that why we have the option to edit?

yeh i use it a lot to correct typos, but you like change your whole post.

Yeah but why do you care? When I edit i do it immediately after. I never come back later and edit it. Besides maybe sometimes I think I am coming across in a manner I dont want to, so I change it. I didnt realize we werent supposed to.

Yes I think we do need to change the law as we ourselves change. For example would you like to live in a world where you got stoned to death for cheating? I believe cheating is wrong, but wrong enough to be killed for it? Definately not. And yeah, that probably happens in some countries still today, which I think is horrible.

What I meant by that original statement is the Catholic church's view on many things in society today. I think it needs a lot of updating. You obviously belong to Hillsong, one of the pastors of that here is Bobbie Houston, right? Your denomination of Christianity allows women to be in high positions, equal with men. The highest position a woman can become in the Catholic church is a nun, who is under the leadership of priests, bishops, etc. All males. How is that fair, when Galatians 3: 28 claims "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ." Not allowing women to be equal with men is just sexist.

Also the Catholic church refuses to give communion to those who publicly claim to be homosexual. But homosexuality is something that in today's society is much more accepted and common. I think the Catholic church should be focused on what Jesus taught; everyone is equal.



For 13 years I was educated in Catholic schools. Twice I was given lessons by a priest, both of them who said it is a sin to miss church. And there's no way I'm going to believe that. Yeah it's nice to be in a community with other Catholics celebrating what we believe, but the Catholic mass is boring for me. I can't help that. Hillsong I'm sure is a lot more fun, at least it's directed at a much younger age group. I'm not saying the Catholic church should start being more like Hillsong, but the repetitive drone of the priest's voice along with the same hymns I've heard all my life is pretty boring. I don't believe that I have to sit through that every week for God to love me, so I don't.

There's no argue or anything to explain from my viewpoint. I don't like catholic church either. It's so boring and yes when you are discussing THAT.. indeed I know now what you meant by old fashioned. I was more directed to the law itself.
Ive been catholic but it's really such a different experience than being a christian.
I don't belong to Hillsong though. I just really like their music and ive seen them live and all. But the Hillsong church itself.. I don't really know. But it sounds as an awesome church.

Catholic is still Christian though Just a very traditional and conservative type of Christian.

I know its all christianity. Its just that we put it in different pieces.. christian, catholic and protestant ... and there are some little things different from eachother.
Like you say it.. another type.

Wrong. Most modern day Catholics aren't. As much as I generally dislike Christianity, I'd deal with Catholics over Evangelicals any day.

Catholicism is the best section of Christianity. All the major festivals are very showy and theatrical, they're fun to watch! For a bit, I have a short attention span.